10 Responses to “Most hits per game played”

1. JohnnyTwisto Says:
   December 16th, 2009 at 10:37 am

   Technically Ichiro would not be eligible for the HOF as he has played fewer than 10 MLB seasons. An exception was made for Addie Joss, but that's because he died. I'm not sure if the same would be done for voluntary retirement.

   Anyway, I would give Ichiro credit for his Japanese play. Not that I would take all the numbers at face value, but we can be pretty sure he was an MLB-quality player for years before he was actually here, so I would reward him for that ability.

2. Andy Says:
   December 16th, 2009 at 10:40 am

   Does anybody know the official guidelines for HOF voting, as far as stats from other leagues? I have always assumed that only MLB stats should be considered, but then I remembered that some Negro Leagues players are in the HOF too. The Negro Leagues are a special case to a certain extent since those players were treated with discrimination and prevented from playing MLB. Such is not the case with a player like Ichiro, who happens to have been born in Japan and not the US.

3. JohnnyTwisto Says:
   December 16th, 2009 at 11:27 am

   I do know the guidelines say to consider "the player's record and ability." I take "record" to mean the stats he compiled (presumably in the majors), but "ability" goes beyond that. For instance, Joe DiMaggio was hitting into Death Valley -- I think Yankee Stadium killed his power numbers. He was probably an even better hitter than his numbers indicate. Of course, Joe D. doesn't need any extra credit to be HOF-worthy, but if his stats made him borderline, I would certainly consider if there are other factors that indicate he was a great player hurt by specific circumstances out of his control. Likewise, Ichiro didn't accumulate any MLB value when he was 25, but we know he was a great player then, as opposed to say Edgar Martinez who seems to be a late-bloomer. Phil Rizzuto's playing record may not appear HOF-worthy, but if you give him credit for losing time to war -- three years when he added no value to the Yankees, but was still a great player -- then maybe it is.

4. ImAShark3 Says:
   December 16th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

   What idiot voted no for no HOF when he retires?

5. BLT Says:
   December 16th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

   You can conceivably argue that he isn't a no-brainer based on his numbers - you'd be wrong, but the "Right Fielder with no power who hasn't won anything" argument isn't entirely meritless. That being said, I think he deserves to be a Hall of Famer, as Cooperstown is about excellence AND significance. Ichiro wasn't the first Japanese major leaguer player, but he was the first great one.

6. ImAShark3 Says:
   December 16th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

   He's possibly even the greatest player of all time, too.

7. ImAShark3 Says:
   December 16th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

   Now another disgrace to humanity voted no to the HOF after he retires!

8. TheGoofyOne Says:
   December 17th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

   Don't forget, Ichiro's other advantage in this stat--he doesn't walk. When you lead off, get lots of hits and don't walk, your hits per game are high. That's what makes the raw power numbers of guys like Ruth, Frank Thomas and Ted Williams, who walked about 20 percent of the time, even more impressive than guys with great raw totals who don't or didn't walk so much, like DiMaggio, Griffey, Mattingly or, until recently, Pujols.
   As for per game stats, they are useful to a point. Look at Sam Thompson. Awesome raw totals, even more awesome per game totals. You'd think he's a top-five player of all-time. But between the era he played in and the help padding his run and RBI totals, a very good player looks great. Win Shares shows a world of difference between the level of importance to the team of Delahanty and Hamilton (regularly MVP level) and that of Thompson (lower-tier all-star level).
   I'm not knocking Ichiro; he's a great player, probably Hall of Fame worthy (I didn't vote in the poll) and a game-changer since Day 1. His all-around use transcends OPS and he's a rare player who can swim against the tide of how the game is trending, and do so successfully.

9. J.R. Says:
   December 17th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

   Thanks for the post, and the love! You guys at bbref are simply awesome. IMHO, Ichiro is a first ballot HOFer after this year, and I'm quite happy to hear that Seattle is probably going to bat Figgins in the 2 spot, giving Ichiro a chance at an improbable 10th straight 200-hit season. FYI, here is what I wrote the guys at bbref:

   Ichiro and his 224 hit seasons.

   Ichiro has 5 of them. The only other "active" player with a season anywhere over the 223 hit barrier is Darin Erstad, and active, for him, is a loose term. He posted a .194 BA in 150 PA, amounting to 26 H, in 2009, and is not expected to be signed this year. So, if Erstad does retire, that leaves Ichiro as the ONLY active player with a 224 H season. Considering that a 224 H season has happened 68 times, that's pretty darn impressive.

   So... I delved further into the matter. I looked at Ichiro's active baseball career, including Japan. Going back to 1992, his first season in pro ball in Japan, that raises the total players with a 224 H season to a whopping 3, and two were done in the same season! (1996 - Molitor 225 H, L. Johnson 227 H)

   Ok, fine... Let's look at 224 H seasons in Ichiro's lifetime, from 1973 on. (great year for my Mets, by the way) Technically, the 1973 season of Pete Rose, with 230 H, doesn't count, only because the season ended October 21, 1973 (with my Mets unfortunate loss to Oakland in Game 7 of the WS), and Ichiro was born the day after, October 22, but I'll throw it in just the same. If you count up all the seasons of 224 H or more during Ichiro's lifetime, the total burgeons to 7. That's it. Again, Ichiro has 5. The rest of the living world has 7.

   Should there even be a discussion of his HOF worthiness?

10. Andy Says:
    December 17th, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    JR, thanks for motivating the interesting discussion.