Tony Gwynn broke the mold

Posted by Andy on January 3, 2010

Tony Gwynn (Sr., that is) is likely to be the last great player of his particular mold, at least until the style of the game changes significantly. I am referring specifically to his incredibly low strikeout totals.

Over his career, Gwynn mashed 3,141 hits while striking out only 434 times. That's a ratio of 7.237 hits per strikeout. Here are the career hits leaders (1901-present) among players with a ratio at least as large as Gwynn's:

Rk	Player	H	SO	From	To	Age	G	PA	AB	R	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	IBB	HBP	SH	SF	GDP	SB	CS	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	Pos	Tm
1	Ty Cobb	4189	357	1905	1928	18-41	3035	13072	11434	2246	724	295	117	1937	1249	0	94	295	0	0	892	178	.366	.433	.512	.945	*89/73145	DET-PHA
2	Tris Speaker	3514	220	1907	1928	19-40	2789	11988	10195	1882	792	222	117	1529	1381	0	103	309	0	0	432	129	.345	.428	.500	.928	*8/3971	BOS-CLE-WSH-PHA
3	Eddie Collins	3315	286	1906	1930	19-43	2826	12037	9949	1821	438	187	47	1300	1499	0	77	512	0	0	744	173	.333	.424	.429	.853	*4/69875	PHA-CHW
4	Paul Waner	3152	376	1926	1945	23-42	2549	10762	9459	1627	605	191	113	1309	1091	0	38	174	0	127	104	0	.333	.404	.473	.878	*9/387	PIT-TOT-BSN-BRO-NYY
5	Tony Gwynn	3141	434	1982	2001	22-41	2440	10232	9288	1383	543	85	135	1138	790	203	24	45	85	260	319	125	.338	.388	.459	.847	*98/7D	SDP
6	Sam Rice	2987	275	1915	1934	25-44	2404	10246	9269	1514	498	184	34	1078	708	0	56	213	0	0	351	143	.322	.374	.427	.801	*98/71	WSH-CLE
7	Frankie Frisch	2880	272	1919	1937	20-38	2311	10100	9112	1532	466	138	105	1244	728	0	31	229	0	55	419	74	.316	.369	.432	.801	*45/6	NYG-STL
8	Charlie Gehringer	2839	372	1924	1942	21-39	2323	10237	8860	1774	574	146	184	1427	1186	0	50	141	0	27	181	89	.320	.404	.480	.884	*4/35	DET
9	Sam Crawford	2821	104	1901	1917	21-37	2385	10037	9054	1298	440	287	89	1446	730	0	20	233	0	0	346	30	.312	.364	.453	.817	*983/7	CIN-DET
10	George Sisler	2812	327	1915	1930	22-37	2055	9013	8267	1284	425	164	102	1175	472	0	48	226	0	0	375	127	.340	.379	.468	.847	*3/197845	SLB-TOT-BSN
11	Honus Wagner	2766	327	1901	1917	27-43	2298	9640	8507	1414	506	210	78	1375	836	0	99	198	0	0	601	15	.325	.392	.462	.853	*63/957481	PIT
12	Doc Cramer	2705	345	1929	1948	23-42	2239	9933	9140	1357	396	109	37	842	572	0	41	180	0	99	62	73	.296	.340	.375	.715	*8/9761	PHA-BOS-WSH-DET
13	Nellie Fox	2663	216	1947	1965	19-37	2367	10349	9232	1279	355	112	35	790	719	24	142	208	48	175	76	80	.288	.348	.363	.710	*4/53	PHA-CHW-HOU
14	Heinie Manush	2524	345	1923	1939	21-37	2008	8416	7654	1287	491	160	110	1183	506	0	70	186	0	11	114	58	.330	.377	.479	.856	*789/3	DET-SLB-TOT-WSH-BOS-BRO-PIT
15	Nap Lajoie	2521	74	1901	1916	26-41	1988	8256	7498	1083	510	101	51	1141	457	0	97	204	0	0	293	21	.336	.382	.452	.833	*43/657	PHA-TOT-CLE
16	Lloyd Waner	2459	173	1927	1945	21-39	1993	8326	7772	1201	281	118	27	598	420	0	26	108	0	57	67	0	.316	.353	.393	.747	*87/945	PIT-TOT-PHI
17	Pie Traynor	2416	278	1920	1937	21-38	1941	8293	7559	1183	371	164	58	1273	472	0	31	231	0	47	158	46	.320	.362	.435	.797	*5/63	PIT
18	Stuffy McInnis	2405	189	1909	1927	18-36	2128	8623	7822	872	312	101	20	1063	380	0	38	383	0	0	172	59	.307	.343	.381	.723	*3/6547	PHA-BOS-CLE-BSN-PIT-PHI
19	Edd Roush	2376	260	1913	1931	20-38	1967	8156	7363	1099	339	182	68	981	484	0	53	256	0	0	268	92	.323	.369	.446	.815	*8/7394	CHW-IND-NEW-TOT-CIN-NYG
20	Joe Sewell	2226	114	1920	1933	21-34	1903	8329	7132	1141	436	68	49	1055	842	0	80	275	0	0	74	72	.312	.391	.413	.804	*65/4	CLE-NYY
21	Arky Vaughan	2103	276	1932	1948	20-36	1817	7721	6622	1173	356	128	96	926	937	0	46	116	0	70	118	0	.318	.406	.453	.859	*65/74	PIT-BRO
22	Clyde Milan	2100	197	1907	1922	20-35	1982	8312	7359	1004	240	105	17	617	685	0	80	188	0	0	495	78	.285	.353	.353	.706	*87/9	WSH

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used

So, wow, only Gwynn and Nellie Fox played as recently as 1950 from that group.

Among active players, only R.A. Dickey meets the criteria with at least 2 career hits. He's had 5 plate appearances, two singles, and no strikeouts.

If we drop the ratio requirement all the way down to 4, meaning 4 times as many hits as strikeouts, then we get these few active players:

Rk	Player	H	SO	From	To	Age	G	PA	AB	R	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	IBB	HBP	SH	SF	GDP	SB	CS	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	Pos	Tm
1	Placido Polanco	1671	391	1998	2009	22-33	1465	6017	5511	826	279	30	90	579	314	10	80	77	35	150	71	30	.303	.348	.414	.761	*456/7D3	STL-TOT-PHI-DET
2	Juan Pierre	1663	337	2000	2009	22-31	1433	6064	5533	804	199	79	13	387	340	8	67	110	14	69	459	155	.301	.348	.372	.720	*87/D	COL-FLA-CHC-LAD
3	Jeff Keppinger	329	82	2004	2009	24-29	350	1312	1181	139	57	7	20	121	92	7	9	21	9	46	7	5	.279	.333	.390	.723	65/4379	NYM-KCR-CIN-HOU
4	R.A. Dickey	2	0	2001	2009	26-34	144	5	5	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	.400	.400	.400	.800	*1	TEX-SEA-MIN

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/1/2010.

Pierre is actually juts a few hits shy of a ratio of 5.0, but it's likely that all active players will see their ratios decline as their careers advance, since strikeouts tend to get a little more common over time.

Tony Gwynn, who ranks among my all-time personal favorite players, was simply amazing. Keeping in mind that he averaged only 9 HR every 162 games, that makes his career OPS+ value of 132 all the more impressive. Here's another way of looking at it: fewest career homers for a player with an OPS+ of at least 132 and at least 1000 games played:

Rk	Player	HR	OPS+	G	From	To	Age	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	RBI	BB	IBB	SO	HBP	SH	SF	GDP	SB	CS	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	Pos	Tm
1	Roberto Hernandez	0	166	1010	1991	2007	26-42	2	2	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	.500	.500	.500	1.000	*1	CHW-TOT-TBD-KCR-ATL-PHI-NYM
2	Frank Chance	18	139	1114	1901	1914	24-37	4537	3809	702	1133	181	71	547	517	0	29	112	99	0	0	376	0	.297	.397	.396	.793	*3/9278	CHC-NYY
3	Elmer Flick	27	146	1084	1901	1910	25-34	4680	4114	662	1249	198	124	467	413	0	0	57	96	0	0	241	0	.304	.375	.432	.807	*98/47	PHI-TOT-CLE
4	Fred Clarke	30	137	1373	1901	1915	28-42	5902	5073	931	1528	223	144	590	579	0	50	63	187	0	0	240	0	.301	.380	.420	.799	*7/9685	PIT
5	Eddie Collins	47	142	2826	1906	1930	19-43	12037	9949	1821	3315	438	187	1300	1499	0	286	77	512	0	0	744	173	.333	.424	.429	.853	*4/69875	PHA-CHW
6	Nap Lajoie	51	151	1988	1901	1916	26-41	8256	7498	1083	2521	510	101	1141	457	0	74	97	204	0	0	293	21	.336	.382	.452	.833	*43/657	PHA-TOT-CLE
7	Joe Jackson	54	170	1332	1908	1920	18-30	5690	4981	873	1772	307	168	785	519	0	158	59	131	0	0	202	61	.356	.423	.517	.940	798/3	PHA-CLE-TOT-CHW
8	Honus Wagner	78	152	2298	1901	1917	27-43	9640	8507	1414	2766	506	210	1375	836	0	327	99	198	0	0	601	15	.325	.392	.462	.853	*63/957481	PIT
9	Sherry Magee	83	136	2087	1904	1919	19-34	8546	7441	1112	2169	425	166	1176	736	0	359	109	260	0	0	441	12	.291	.364	.427	.790	*7839/645	PHI-BSN-TOT-CIN
10	Sam Crawford	89	146	2385	1901	1917	21-37	10037	9054	1298	2821	440	287	1446	730	0	104	20	233	0	0	346	30	.312	.364	.453	.817	*983/7	CIN-DET
11	Arky Vaughan	96	136	1817	1932	1948	20-36	7721	6622	1173	2103	356	128	926	937	0	276	46	116	0	70	118	0	.318	.406	.453	.859	*65/74	PIT-BRO
12	Frank Baker	96	135	1575	1908	1922	22-36	6660	5984	887	1838	315	103	987	473	0	182	50	153	0	0	235	28	.307	.363	.442	.805	*5	PHA-NYY
13	John Kruk	100	133	1200	1986	1995	25-34	4603	3897	582	1170	199	34	592	649	83	701	2	12	43	92	58	31	.300	.397	.446	.842	*379/D8	SDP-TOT-PHI-CHW
14	Roy Cullenbine	110	132	1181	1938	1947	24-33	4787	3879	627	1072	209	32	599	853	0	399	11	44	0	61	26	20	.276	.408	.432	.840	*973/58	DET-TOT-SLB-CLE
15	Paul Waner	113	134	2549	1926	1945	23-42	10762	9459	1627	3152	605	191	1309	1091	0	376	38	174	0	127	104	0	.333	.404	.473	.878	*9/387	PIT-TOT-BSN-BRO-NYY
16	Ty Cobb	117	168	3035	1905	1928	18-41	13072	11434	2246	4189	724	295	1937	1249	0	357	94	295	0	0	892	178	.366	.433	.512	.945	*89/73145	DET-PHA
17	Tris Speaker	117	157	2789	1907	1928	19-40	11988	10195	1882	3514	792	222	1529	1381	0	220	103	309	0	0	432	129	.345	.428	.500	.928	*8/3971	BOS-CLE-WSH-PHA
18	Gavvy Cravath	119	151	1220	1908	1920	27-39	4645	3951	575	1134	232	83	719	561	0	514	28	105	0	0	89	9	.287	.380	.478	.858	*97/83	BOS-TOT-PHI
19	Bob Nieman	125	132	1113	1951	1962	24-35	3947	3452	455	1018	180	32	544	435	18	512	9	26	25	104	10	30	.295	.373	.474	.847	*79	SLB-DET-CHW-TOT-BAL-STL
20	Tony Gwynn	135	132	2440	1982	2001	22-41	10232	9288	1383	3141	543	85	1138	790	203	434	24	45	85	260	319	125	.338	.388	.459	.847	*98/7D	SDP
21	Jack Fournier	136	142	1530	1912	1927	22-37	6033	5208	822	1631	252	113	859	587	0	408	89	149	0	0	145	94	.313	.392	.483	.875	*3/7981	CHW-NYY-STL-BRO-BSN
22	Jackie Robinson	137	132	1382	1947	1956	28-37	5802	4877	947	1518	273	54	734	740	7	291	72	104	9	113	197	30	.311	.409	.474	.883	*4537/69	BRO
23	Bill Terry	154	136	1721	1923	1936	24-37	7111	6428	1120	2193	373	112	1078	537	0	449	9	137	0	38	56	6	.341	.393	.506	.899	*3/97	NYG
24	Chick Hafey	164	133	1283	1924	1937	21-34	5113	4625	777	1466	341	67	833	372	0	477	33	83	0	28	70	7	.317	.372	.526	.898	*789	STL-CIN
25	Babe Herman	181	140	1552	1926	1945	23-42	6226	5603	882	1818	399	110	997	520	0	553	11	92	0	43	94	0	.324	.383	.532	.915	*937	BRO-CIN-CHC-TOT-DET
Rk	Player	HR	OPS+	G	From	To	Age	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	RBI	BB	IBB	SO	HBP	SH	SF	GDP	SB	CS	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	Pos	Tm
26	Tommy Henrich	183	132	1284	1937	1950	24-37	5409	4603	901	1297	269	73	795	712	0	383	34	60	0	62	37	19	.282	.382	.491	.873	*93/87	NYY
27	Harry Heilmann	183	148	2148	1914	1932	19-37	8960	7787	1291	2660	542	151	1539	856	0	550	40	277	0	0	113	64	.342	.410	.520	.930	*93/847	DET-CIN
28	Charlie Keller	189	152	1170	1939	1952	22-35	4604	3790	725	1085	166	72	760	784	0	499	10	20	0	50	45	23	.286	.410	.518	.928	*79	NYY-DET
29	Al Rosen	192	136	1044	1947	1956	23-32	4374	3725	603	1063	165	20	717	587	9	385	27	9	26	121	39	33	.285	.384	.495	.879	*5/3647	CLE
30	Jeff Heath	194	139	1383	1936	1949	21-34	5560	4937	777	1447	279	102	887	593	0	670	10	20	0	59	56	47	.293	.370	.509	.879	*79/8	CLE-TOT-SLB-BSN
31	Ken Williams	196	138	1397	1915	1929	25-39	5616	4862	860	1552	285	77	913	566	0	287	28	160	0	0	154	106	.319	.393	.530	.924	*78/934	CIN-SLB-BOS
32	Gene Tenace	201	136	1555	1969	1983	22-36	5525	4390	653	1060	179	20	674	984	58	998	91	21	39	77	36	42	.241	.388	.429	.817	*23/594D7	OAK-SDP-STL-PIT
33	Rico Carty	204	132	1651	1963	1979	23-39	6318	5606	712	1677	278	17	890	642	65	663	13	3	54	206	21	26	.299	.369	.464	.833	7D/3295	MLN-ATL-TOT-CLE-TOR
34	Joe Medwick	205	134	1984	1932	1948	20-36	8142	7635	1198	2471	540	113	1383	437	0	551	26	44	0	203	42	0	.324	.362	.505	.867	*7/983	STL-TOT-BRO-NYG
35	Miguel Cabrera	209	140	1040	2003	2009	20-26	4441	3921	630	1220	253	12	753	446	90	825	33	5	36	125	24	13	.311	.383	.542	.925	5379/D	FLA-DET

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/1/2010.

First, chuckle your way past #1 Roberto Hernandez, and then check out Gwynn's company. In this day and age, it's tough to get such a high OPS+ without hitting many homers. The guys just had so many hits. I carried the list down to the first active player, Miguel Cabrera.

Anyway, I have my doubts that we'll ever see another player like Tony Gwynn.

This entry was posted on Sunday, January 3rd, 2010 at 7:54 am and is filed under Season Finders. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

13 Responses to “Tony Gwynn broke the mold”

Devon Says:
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:22 am
Wow, that's pretty impressive! I don't think I realized how good Gwynn's was as a contact hitter.
Andy Says:
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:51 am
For me, John Kruk was a surprise entry on that last table.
sabrsteve Says:
January 3rd, 2010 at 10:37 am
Andy, Cobb, Speaker and Collins all had several years when strikeouts were not recorded. Did you adjust for this. Thank you.
Andy Says:
January 3rd, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Ah, I did not account for that. Do you have the details on which years were omitted?
Thanks for catching my mistake.
DavidRF Says:
January 3rd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Information about the missing strikeout data is here at this site.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/SO_leagues.shtml

NL: 1897-1909
AL: 1901-1912
statboy Says:
January 3rd, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Why do you think Gwynn would be the last such player? Sure, it's apparently harder to amass a bunch of hits (and few Ks) than it was 80 years ago, but if a modern player like Gwynn can do it, why can't someone else?
Andy Says:
January 3rd, 2010 at 6:17 pm
Because Gwynn's not a modern player, having come up in the early 80s and played a style of ball consistent with that era. Nobody these days has managed that type of ratio over any significant period. However you raise a valid point: the best argument that someone might yet match Gwynn is the fact that he himself did it, and evaluating the likelihood in view of today's generalities ignores the possibility of an exceptional player, as Gwynn himself was. Still, that being said, I still guess that we won't see it again in the next 50 years.
Mags Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 11:03 am
This is my first post here. Long time user. Ya Gwynn was always one of my favorites along with Henderson, as I was a leadoff hitter and always valued contact and speed. Not many players try for those nowadaysa anymore.
mike Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 11:11 am
On a similar note, here's an idea for another list - best ratio of home runs to strikeouts.

Albert Pujols is currently at 366 HR to 570 strikeouts. Lou Gehrig sits at 493 HR and 790 strikeouts. Pujols obviously still has another decade to play so things could change, but I'm curious to see if anybody else with that many home runs is even in the 2:1 ratio range.
Andy Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Coming to mind immediately is Joe DiMaggio, who had 361 HR and 369 Ks in his career. Up until very late (the last bunch of weeks of his career) he had more HR than K, a very impressive feat for such a large HR total. I will work on a post about this.
DavidRF Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 11:37 am
#7: "Because Gwynn's not a modern player, having come up in the early 80s and played a style of ball consistent with that era."
--------------
The first name that popped into my head after reading this was Ichiro. But though his AB/K ratios are solid (10.2), even with his high BA, it isn't enough to put his H/K numbers above 3.5 or so. Tony Gwynn had both a high AB/K ration (21.40) and a high H/AB ratio (.338).

Some fun names on the AB/K ratio leaderboard here. Tommy Holmes had quite a year in 1945. He hit .352/.420/.577 in 713 PA with just 9 K's. Plus Yogi Berra's career AB/K was over 18 and he was a bad-ball power hitter.
Patrick Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Also a long time reader and first time contributor.

re: #9, #10 - DiMaggio certainly, but also Yogi (358 HR, 414 K) and perhaps even Bill Dickey (202 HR, 289 K) come to mind. Not bad for a pair of Yankee catchers.

Another fairly modern high hit / low K guy was Bill Buckner (2715 H, 450 K). It's easy for me to forget, having been a young and impressionable Red Sox fan in 1986, how very decent Buckner was in his prime.
Andy Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 11:53 am
The Buckner situation kills me. He was a hell of a good ballplayer and a real gamer. His error was just one of several failures by the Red Sox that led directly to the Mets' victory in 1986.

After the Red Sox won in 2004, they had Buckner back for a "we're sorry" round of cheering at Fenway Park. How incredibly lame by the Red Sox and their fans. Only once they won a World Series did they attempt to apologize for years of death threats and the like, all for a guy who did nothing but try his best.

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