Doubles and Triples by LHB vs RHB
Posted by Andy on November 25, 2007
A reader asked about the incidence of doubles of triples, broken down by whether the batters hit lefty or right.
Looking at 2007, that info is available on the ML Batting Splits page.
In 99448 AB, right-handed batters hit 5458 doubles and 426 triples.
In 68335 AB, left-handed batters hit 3739 doubles and 512 triples.
Right away, you can see that LHB hit triples at a much higher rate, given that they hit more triples in fewer at-bats. Normalizing by number of at-bats, here's the comparison:
For doubles, RHB hit 1 per 18.22 at-bats, where as LHB hit 1 per 18.28 at-bats. For all intents are purposes, that's absolutely identical. If there were a team of all lefties versus a team of all righties, the team of lefties would hit about 1 more double over the course of an entire season.
For triples, it's a different story. RHB hit 1 per 233.4 AB, whereas LHB hit 1 per 133.5 AB. That's a huge difference. Again comparing mythical teams of all lefties vs all righties, the lefty team would hit about 20 more triples per year.
Interestingly, RHB and LHB had virtually identical batting averages, with RHB hitting .2677 for the year and LHB hitting .2685 for the year. Looking just at singles, RHB hit 17,783 in 99,448 ABs and LHB hit 12,102 in 68,335 ABs. That 1 single per 5.59 ABs for righties, and 1 single per 5.65 ABs for lefties. That'd be a difference of just 11 singles over a year for a team of righties over a team of lefties.
For homers, righties has 2956, or 1 per 33.6 ABs. Lefties managed 2001, or 1 per 34.2 ABs. Over the course of a season, a team of righties would hit 3 more homers in a season as compared to a team of lefties.
So, lefties hit more singles and triples, whereas righties hit more doubles and homers. However, it's only the difference in triples that's very significant.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:08 am
As far as I can tell, there are only two RHBs who hit more than 140 3Bs since WW2. Can you name them? I'll post the answers in the next post.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Somethings to consider when comparing lefties to righties.
Firstly by comparing totals you are disproportionately representing pitchers among righties. (There are about 3 times as many righty pitchers as lefties (based on opponents PA) but in the league overall there are only twice as many (based on AB).
There are other positional considerations as well. These are explained in this article.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-advantage-of-batting-left-handed/
November 25th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Lifetime leaders in triples, RHB:
1. Honus Wagner 252 (3rd overall all-time)
2. Joe Kelley 194 (9th)
3. Bid McPhee 188 (11th)
4. Ed Delahanty 185 (13th)
5. Ed Konetchy 182 (15th)
6. Buck Ewing 178 (18th)
7. Rabbit Maranville 177 (19th)
8. Harry Stovey 174 (21st)
9. Tommy Leach 172 (23rd)
10. Rogers Hornsby 169 (25th)
11. Roberto Clemente 166 (27th)
November 25th, 2007 at 10:13 am
kingturtle - using your criteria (140 career triples since 1945) there has only been one lefty and one switch hitter. Two right isn't bad.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:15 am
Can you guess what RHB leads all active players in lifetime 3Bs? I'll give you a hint. He's 4th in all-time post-season strike outs (with 79! 19 of which came in the 1995 post season!)
Answer will be below.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Post 3. ^^^^ got screwed up somehow. The answer to RHBs who hit more than 140 3Bs since WW2 are Clemente and Mays.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:20 am
I didn't even realize that he was still playing.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Post 5. Answer: Reggie Sanders.
Here are the active RHB ranked according to lifetime 3Bs.
1. Reggie Sanders, 60
2. Craig Biggio, 55
2. Royce Clayton, 55
4. Mike Cameron, 54
4. Julio Franco, 54
4. Derek Jeter, 54
7. Nomar Garciaparra, 52
8. Juan Encarnacion, 46
8. Jeff Kent, 46
10. Ivan Rodriguez, 45
10. Sammy Sosa, 45
12. Vladimir Guerrero, 40
13. Moises Alou, 39
13. Shannon Stewart, 39
13. Michael Young, 39
16. Mark Grudzielanek, 36
17. Brad Ausmus, 34
17. Andruw Jones, 34
17. Juan Uribe, 34
17. Rondell White, 34
November 25th, 2007 at 11:26 am
A look into the word of single-season 3B records for RHB is a look into ancient history and obscurity. Dave Orr holds the record with 31 triples for the New York Metropolitans of the American Association in 1886. Orr never hit more than 10 triples in a season otherwise. He amassed a lifetime +161 OPS+ in 8 seasons before having a career ending stroke.
Second all-time is Perry "Moose" Werden who hit 29 triples for the 1893 St. Louis Browns of the National League (the current Cardinals franchise). Moose had been nine years earlier an 18-year old pitching phemon, going 12-1 in 16 starts with the 94-19 St. Louis Maroons of the Union Association. He never pitched again after that season.
Tied for third (with 28 triples in a season) are two Pirates, Harry Davis who did it in 1897 and Jimmy Williams who did it in 1898 (as a rookie). Another Pirate, Kiki Cuyler had 26 in 1925, but Cuyler's Pirates played in Forbes Field, while Davis' and Williams' Pirates played in Exposition Park.
Tied with Cuyler, Long John Reilly hit 26 triples with the 1890 Cincinnati Reds. He was among the top ten of the all-time home run list from 1888 to 1892, but was never higher than seventh.
Tom Long is 7th all time with 25 triples with the 1915 St. Louis Cardinals. The 1915 Cardinals played in Robison Field, which was the same park that Werden's 1893 team played.
Ed McKean is 8th all time with 24 triples with the 1893 Cleveland Spiders (franchise now defunct). By the way, he was the 8th player to reach 2000 hits in a career.
The first post-dead-ball era player comes in at number 9. Adam Comorosky had 23 triples with the 1930 Pirates (Forbes Field). That year he set a Pirates record for doubles in a season (47) that wasn't broken until 2006 when Freddy Sanchez hit 48 doubles.
According to Wikipedia, Comorosky is the only National League outfielder ever to have two unassisted double plays in a season.
Nap Lajoie hit 23 triples for the 1897 Philadelphia Phillies.
Harry Stovey (who I think should be in the HOF) had 23 triples for the 1884 Philadelphia Athletics of the American Association (franchise now defunct).
Those are the top ten. The next nine names are Bill Bradley (22 in 1903), Birdie Cree (22 in 1911), Tommy Leach (22 in 1902), Bid McPhee (22 in 1890), Mike Mitchell (22 in 1911), Hy Myers (22 in 1920), Kip Selbach (22 in 1895), Honus Wagner (22 in 1900) and Snuffy Stirnweiss (22 in 1945).
Can someone please explain Snuffy Stirnweiss' 1945 season to me? What a great story.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:27 am
oops. I realize that Kiki Cuyler was the first on the list of post-dead-ball era results, not Adam Comorosky.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Snuffy Stirnweiss' seasons ('44-'45) was a result of the war. After the war his hittig numbers became much more ordinary. Its more of a tragic story than great. He was killed in a train disaster at the age of 39.
November 25th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
OK, since Stirnweiss’ 22 triples in 1945, no RHB has hit as many triples in a season. So it's been 62 years since a RHB had 22 triples. The RHB since 1945 who came closest to 22 triples is Willie Mays, who had 20 in 1957.
Since Mays' 20 triples in 1957, no RHB has hit as many triples in a season. So it's been 50 years since a RHB had 20 triples. Two RHB since 1950 had 19 triples in a season. Who were they?
Here are the clues. They both did it in the same season, and in the same league. (1) One of them made it to a World Series some point in his career, but not to the Hall of Fame. (2) One of them made it to the Hall of Fame, but never to a World Series. (3) They were both secondbasemen.
November 25th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Just Curious. What is your obsession with this topic? You seem very passionate.
November 25th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
The triple is IMHO the most exciting play in baseball. I imagine it is also 2nd only to the inside-the-park-homerun the longest play (time-wise) from the crack-of-the-bat to the ball becoming dead.
Also, today is the first day in a while that I've had a lot of free time to play on this blog. So, maybe I am just making up for lost time 😉
November 25th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
It’s been 50 years since a RHB had 20 triples. Two RHB since 1950 had 19 triples in a season. Who were they?
Ryne Sandberg and Juan Samuel (in 1984).
November 25th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
I suspect that some of rundown plays take a lot longer, actually.
November 25th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Lots more on 20 triples in a season over here:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/293
November 25th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
I believe the single longest play in baseball is Manny Ramirez admiring a homerun and then circling the bases
November 26th, 2007 at 1:06 am
I have to say, this is a very interesting phenomenon and I haven't really seen a good explanation. Is 2007 an anomaly? How have the rates changed over time?
This affect seems much too large to be the result of positional bias.
Here is my hypothesis; There exists a type of batter, Ichiro Susuki and Jacoby Ellsbury come to mind for me, who is able to outrun a high percentage of infield ground balls for singles. This type of hitter will often hit a high rate of triples, especially if they have some pop. This type of hitter is benefited more than most by hitting lefty, since they are that much harder to throw out on an infield grounder. So these hitters, who hit alot of triples, are often lefties. I think many of them are actually natural righties.
It is argued that lefties have no advantage getting to first base on infield grounders; http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-advantage-of-batting-left-handed/
This may be true for the group of lefties, but on any given hit, a lefty does have an advantage.
Also, lay off Manny. He is a goofball, but also an exceptional ballplayer, and as far as I can tell, a good person.
November 26th, 2007 at 1:33 am
Looking back, it looks like this phenomenon did not used to be nearly so pronounced.
November 26th, 2007 at 5:49 am
I didn't knock Manny. It just takes him 3 weeks to get to first base when he homers. That doesn't mean he's not a good ballplayer or person.
November 26th, 2007 at 11:10 am
Boy, there is a lot of discussion on this one.
I don't see this observation. A left-handed batter is far more likely to slam a ball into the right-field corner or into the right-center gap. Since either of those places is a long way from third base, the throw (or relay) to prevent a triple is difficult.
If runners ran the bases clockwise instead of counterclockwise, right-handed batters would hit a statistically-significant higher rate of triples.
November 26th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
I think David has it nailed, that the longer outfield throws are the key. I've also heard a theory that it's easier to get triples when the ball goes to the LEFT center gap, because the runner can see the ball while heading into second base and is more likely to take third if the opportunity presents. This has nothing much to do with the handedness of the batter, though.
One note about Ichiro--his times to first base are super-fast in particular because A) he's a fast runner but also B) he has a drag-type swing that sees him, on follow-through, already heading out of the batter's box towards first base. By no means do all LHB have that kind of follow-through, but it's a huge advantage for him.
And finally, about Manny, I know nothing about what kind of person he is, but I have no hesitation in calling him a poor sport and a lollygagger. Were it not for his good post-season performance and the fact that his team did end up winning it all, he would have been called out (deservedly) for a terrible year. He has never hustled, but fans and managers have been willing to look past it when he was ultra-productive. If his production next year is the same as 2008, the BoSox better win the WS again unless he wants to really face the music. Even though Ramirez is a much more valuable player than Derek Jeter, I'd take Jeter any day of the week.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
If this were strictly an issue of throws from rightfield versus leftfield, than I would expect it to be relative constant over the years. It is not, and seems to have arisen during the past 30 years.
Manny had his least productive year since 1994 last year, but he was far from terrible. He is not a poor sport, and I think he is more of a goofball than a lollygagger. He is an awful baserunner, but actually a decent fielder. As a Red Sox fan, I am fine with him preserving his hammies a little on infield grounders. He is actually a hard worker who puts in alot of time scouting pitchers and his teamates do not seem to have a problem with him.
Given the large number of exceptional assholes in professional sports, I figure Manny gets way to much crisiscm.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Sorry, but standing and watching home runs makes you a poor sport, period. There is no defense for that.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Andy,
With respect to Manny Ramirez, you mean "if his production next year is the same as in 2007" [not 2008]. In 2007, Manny earned 15 win shares and Derek Jeter earned 24.
Since 2009 is a club option year on Manny's contract, he has every Rickey-Henderson incentive to perform exceptionally well in 2008, or the Red Sox might decide to spend $20 million some other way.
Manny has 354 win shares and I figure that left-fielders who compile 370 for their careers are likely Hall of Famers. I agree with FCAlive that Manny is, all things considered, not too rotten an egg. However, one of the things he needs to be doing for $20 million is conditioning himself so that he can play more than 133 games per season.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
"Looking back, it looks like this phenomenon did not used to be nearly so pronounced." FCAlive, post 20.
"I would expect it to be relative constant over the years. It is not, and seems to have arisen during the past 30 years." FCAlive, post 24.
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Can you explain further and indicate what evidence you're referring to with respect to "seems to have arisen during the past 30 years"? Thanks!
November 26th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
I'm going to post in more detail about this tomorrow, i.e. historical 3B rates of LHB vs RHB.
Regarding Manny, thanks David for pointing out my error of 2008 vs 2007. I think we'd all agree that Manny has been an exceptionally productive player over his career. And Jeter may have gotten more Win Shares last year, but I would guess that most years, Manny has earned more--that's all that I meant.
November 26th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
I saw stand Dustin Pedroia watch a homer in the ALCS. It seems to me that most hitters do it when the really crush a ball. Manny hits alot of no doubt homers.