This is our old blog. It hasn't been active since 2011. Please see the link above for our current blog or click the logo above to see all of the great data and content on this site.

Matt Garza starts a game and saves a game in the same series

Posted by Andy on July 8, 2010

Matt Garza earned a save last night against the Red Sox in just his 3rd career relief appearance and first since 2007. That came just 2 days after he started a game against the Red Sox.

Click through for more.

Rk Gcar Gtm Date Tm Opp Rslt Inngs Dec DR IP H ER BB SO HR HBP ERA BF Pit GSc IR IS
1 89 2 Apr 7 TBR BAL W,4-3 GS-8 W(1-0) 99 8.0 4 1 2 9 0 1 1.12 32 114 75
2 90 7 Apr 12 TBR @ BAL W,5-1 GS-8 W(2-0) 4 8.0 6 1 3 5 1 0 1.12 30 103 68
3 91 12 Apr 18 TBR @ BOS W,7-1 GS-8 W(3-0) 5 8.0 4 0 2 5 0 0 0.75 26 115 77
4 92 17 Apr 23 TBR TOR L,5-6 GS-5 L(3-1) 4 5.0 8 5 4 6 0 1 2.17 28 102 33
5 93 22 Apr 29 TBR KCR W,11-1 GS-6 W(4-1) 5 6.0 5 1 2 9 1 0 2.06 24 97 65
May Tm Opp Rslt Inngs Dec DR IP H ER BB SO HR HBP ERA BF Pit GSc IR IS
6 94 27 May 5 TBR @ SEA W,8-3 GS-8 W(5-1) 5 8.0 5 2 1 5 1 0 2.09 30 109 68
7 95 32 May 10 TBR @ LAA L,4-5 GS-8 4 7.2 7 4 1 7 2 1 2.49 32 117 55
8 96 37 May 16 TBR SEA W,2-1 GS-6 5 6.0 5 1 2 2 0 1 2.38 24 99 58
9 97 42 May 21 TBR @ HOU L,1-2 CG(8) L(5-2) 4 8.0 6 2 3 6 0 0 2.37 33 100 65
10 98 47 May 26 TBR BOS L,3-11 GS-5 L(5-3) 4 5.0 5 6 5 3 3 0 2.97 24 103 31
11 99 52 May 31 TBR @ TOR L,2-3 GS-7 L(5-4) 4 6.1 10 3 2 3 1 0 3.08 29 99 42
June Tm Opp Rslt Inngs Dec DR IP H ER BB SO HR HBP ERA BF Pit GSc IR IS
12 100 57 Jun 6 TBR @ TEX W,9-5 GS-6 W(6-4) 5 5.2 6 4 2 4 1 0 3.31 24 108 43
13 101 62 Jun 12 TBR FLA W,6-5 GS-6 W(7-4) 5 5.2 9 4 2 7 1 0 3.50 25 102 40
14 102 67 Jun 18 TBR @ FLA L,4-7 GS-2 L(7-5) 5 1.1 7 7 3 2 1 0 4.16 14 71 11
15 103 72 Jun 24 TBR SDP W,5-3 GS-8 W(8-5) 5 8.0 6 3 0 5 1 0 4.10 29 108 63
16 104 77 Jun 30 TBR @ BOS W,9-4 GS-8 W(9-5) 5 7.0 6 3 2 5 0 1 4.08 29 110 56
July Tm Opp Rslt Inngs Dec DR IP H ER BB SO HR HBP ERA BF Pit GSc IR IS
17 105 82 Jul 5 TBR BOS W,6-5 GS-3 4 3.0 7 4 2 1 1 0 4.30 17 84 28
18 106 84 Jul 7 TBR BOS W,6-4 9-GF S(1) 1 0.2 1 0 1 0 0 0 4.28 4 20 1 1
TBR 107.1 107 51 39 84 14 5 4.28 454
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/8/2010.

That's Garza's game log for this season. The last two games are the games in question. He's had some rough games lately and there has been whispering that he might get taken out of the starting rotation. I don't think that's what happened last night, though. My guess is that because he threw so few pitches on July 5th and closer Rafael Soriano had saves on 4 straight days, Joe Maddon decided to throw Garza out there and get him a little work.

Anyway, can anybody think of any other occasions in which a player got both a game start and a save in the same series?

39 Responses to “Matt Garza starts a game and saves a game in the same series”

  1. Johnny Twisto Says:

    Andy Pettitte had a start and a hold in a series v. Boston in April 2007.

    Chien-Ming Wang had a save in between regular starts in June 2006, but it was a different series.

    This was probably not that uncommon if you go back 50+ years.

  2. da HOOK Says:

    Mark Buehrle in the 2005 World Series, although the save was in the 14th inning.

    If you go back 40+ years, the save was not an official statistic.

  3. Johnny Twisto Says:

    Allie Reynolds did it vs Baltimore in 1954, he was the first guy I checked.

  4. Andy Says:

    The Pettitte and Wang games came to my mind too. I have a theory that teams should use their starters as relievers on their throw days, which is what Joe Torre was doing in those games. The guy is going to throw anyway--why not let him do it in a game and save a reliever? I personally think that this might be the future of baseball pitching staffs. If a manager found just 30 relief appearances from his starters, they could free up a roster spot for another position player.

  5. Bryan Mueller Says:

    I remember during the Cubs run in 2003 they had a 5-game series with the Cardinals Sept. 1-4 with a double-header one of those days. Woody Williams lost the 1st games and they brought him in in relief the 4th game, which he also got the loss for. I know it isn't exactly answering the question you asked Andy but I thought it was interesting that Williams (a starter) lost two games in one series, albeit one was in relief. I realize this happens much more frequently with relievers, but I bet it is pretty rare for a starter.

  6. EHMiller Says:

    Following on with Bryan's comment (and I don't really answer the question either!), Randy Johnson in the 2001 WS got the win in both Game 6 and Game 7 - Game 6 as a starter and Game 7 as the closer.

  7. Pete Says:

    This was a fun scavenger hunt. I found one pitcher who accomplished this feat at least once:

    Rich Gossage for the White Sox in 1976. On Friday, August 6, 1976, he started and lost the nightcap of a doubleheader against the Royals. He gave up 8 earned runs in 5 IP (only 2 K's) and Chicago was shut out by Doug Bird.

    Two days later, in Game 1 of another doubleheader against the Royals (yes, this was a 3-day, 5-game series!), Gossage saved Terry Forster's 5-2 victory. This was Goose's only save of the season, and he fared better than his 8/6 start, going 2 IP with no hits allowed, 1 BB and 1 K.

  8. Brian Says:

    Mike Pelfrey got a save this year 2 days after a win (on his throw day) but the win was against the Orckies and the Save against the cards

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=pelfrmi01&t=p&year=2010

  9. JeffW Says:

    Andy,

    I've heard of starters working an inning on their throw day, though I couldn't think of any specific instances that it was done. Check these out, though. They're just as good:

    On May 2nd and 3rd, 1929, Lefty Grove started consecutive games against the Red Sox, throwing five and nine innings. The first contest was a 24-6 romp, in which the A's scored 10 times in the top of the sixth to pull out to a 19-2 lead.

    Mack pulled his ace, but evidently reasoned that Mose had enough gas left in the tank to work again the next day. In that second contest, Grove tossed a six-hitter, striking out nine. The only Boston tally in a 5-1 Philly win that day was unearned.

    This might be even better: On Sept. 3, 1930, Lefty started and pitched the first six innings of an 11-4 win over Boston. He surrendered four runs in the sixth, but the A's scored twice in the bottom of the frame to move back out to a 7-4 lead, and Connie Mack went to the pen to finish.

    The next day, Philly starter Bill Shores (four) and Roy Mahaffey (two) combined to toss the first six innings of that game. With the score tied at that point, Mack went back to Grove. The game remained deadlocked through the seventh, eighth, ninth, 10th (both teams scored once)...all the way up to the 14th, when both clubs scored twice!

    Finally, Philly pushed the game-winner across in the bottom of the 15th. Grove pitched the final nine innings. Two days later, Grove pitched the eighth, ninth and 10th innings to win again. Three games over four days, 18 innings, three wins.

    Three days later, he pitched a nine-inning, complete, 3-1, win over the Tigers.

    As in the last two, there's no save involved. It does involve starts and relief efforts in the same series.

    If you go back a little farther, though, it was commonplace to use a team's top starter to close out other games, oftentimes on consecutive days.

    Even though the gamelogs only go back as far as 1920, I did find this in Pete Alexander's record that year:

    Jul 21 CHC vs. PHI L,1-6 GS-L(16-9) 8.0 10 6 6 2 3 0 0
    Jul 24 CHC vs. PHI W,6-4 S(2) 0.2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Jul 25 CHC vs. PHI W,5-2 CG W(17-9) 9.0 8 2 2 3 4 0 0

    A loss, a win and a save in one series!

    Another neat trick that was used on occasion was to let the game two starter of a twinbill finish the first game, if needed.

    The break between games used to be much shorter back in those days. If you could get the first-game starter through eight, come in with whoever was scheduled to start the nightcap, get an inning out of him, take that short break, then get back to work.

  10. Jim Says:

    Wilbur Wood got a save against Detroit August 8, 1967 and then started two days later. Another knuckleballer, Hoyt Wilhelm, got the win in Wood's start. Wood's 2.34 ERA was the highest of the five White Sox pitchers who pitched in that game.

  11. Bryan Mueller Says:

    JeffW,

    Great post...one of my favorites. As an avid fan of baseball, I easily get lost in today's game but sitting through a series from the early years would be awesome. I wonder how Alexander's arm felt after that series...

  12. RFF Says:

    Derek Lowe in the 2003 postseason had a relief loss (game 1), 8 inning no decision and a save in game 5.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2003_ALDS2.shtml

  13. Andy Says:

    Does anybody have any data from the last several years on starting pitchers appearing in games on their throw days? Should I make a separate post about this?

  14. Mr. Dave Says:

    In the 2001 World Series, Randy Johnson started, pitched seven innings, and won Game 6; then appeared the next day in relief in the ninth inning during Game 7 where he also got the win. I know it's not a save, but this was the last one I could think of off the top of my head.

  15. Jim Says:

    Mike Marshall didn't start any games in 1974, but he pitched six innings in relief and got the win against the Cubs in August and got a save against them two days later.

  16. Xander Says:

    @ Mr. Dave

    You're right about Johnson, and that's the first one I thought of, but I think this post is regarding the regular season. Starters come in as relievers more often in the playoffs as teams try to squeeze everything they have out of their dominant arms. Pretty sweet post here though.

    Andy, I think this does deserve its own post.

  17. JeffW Says:

    Bryan Mueller,

    Thanks!

    I'm sure it was just business as usual for Pete. After all, he won the pitching Triple Crown that year...for the third time in his career.

    In his first five seasons, he relieved 44 times, while starting/completing 37/31-34/25-36/23-39/32-42/36 games.

    Mordecai Brown was at the forefront, as a starter/"closer" in those days, as witnessed by his starts/relief efforts from '08-'11: 31/13, 34/16, 31/15, and 27/26!

    In '11, he won 21 and "saved" 13 (as they were tallied years later...). Of his 123 starts over those four years, he completed 107.

    There may be something to the old theory that you throw at least a little every day -- not necessarily hard, mind you -- just enough to keep the arm loose. Play some soft-toss, a little catch. That builds endurance and flexability.

    Remember, those guys warmed quick, didn't get any tosses from the game mound prior to starting their stint, or in subsequent innings. Of course, many guys didn't throw as hard as they all seem to do now.

    Jamie Moyer would have fit right in.

    But Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove and others reportedly threw as hard as anyone.

  18. Djibouti Says:

    My first thought on this one was Johnson's crazy 2001 WS even though I knew it didn't fit. For some reason my second thought was Danys Baez the year the Indians tried him out as a starter and then demoted him back to the pen. Turns out the closest he came that year (2002) was a start Aug 24 and a save Aug 28.

  19. DavidJ Says:

    Another Rays starter, James Shields, has also appeared in relief this year. Shields pitched a scoreless tenth inning to get the win against the Marlins in that wild game on June 15:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/FLO/FLO201006190.shtml

    Incidentally, that was the only game Shields won in June. He was 0-5 in his five starts.

  20. JamesH Says:

    Didn't Orel Hershiser get a win and then a save in the 1988 NLCS?

  21. Kahuna Tuna Says:

    Here are the nine times when Firpo Marberry had both a save and a start in the same series.

    Against the A's
    9/10/24 (second game): save
    9/11/24: win

    Against the Indians
    7/17/26: save
    7/19/26: win

    Against the A's
    6/21/27 (first game): save
    6/23/27: loss

    Against the Browns
    7/18/29: save
    7/20/29 (first game): win

    Against the Indians
    9/11/29: win
    9/13/29: save

    Against the Browns
    5/15/31: no decision
    5/16/31: save

    Against the Browns
    9/14/31: no decision
    9/16/31: save

    Against the A's
    4/17/32: loss
    4/19/32: save

    Against the White Sox
    6/7/32: no decision
    6/9/32: save

  22. Johnny Twisto Says:

    Marberry was one of seven players with at least 10 CG and SV in the same season (all occurred from 1911-1936; four were HOFers).

  23. Jim Says:

    The White Sox only had 24 at bats in today's game. I thought that was rare, but the A's only had 23 in their April 22 game against the Yankees, and they scored four runs.

  24. Jim Says:

    I know this off topic but it must be asked. who was the last pitcher to have 15 wins before the all star break?

  25. Johnny Twisto Says:

    I feel like David Wells did about 10 year back.

  26. Johnny Twisto Says:

    Wells was 15-2 through 7/8/00. Finished 20-8, led the league in wins.

  27. Pete Says:

    Here's another thing to research....

    In 2008, the Rays had 4 different pitchers pick up saves in 4 consecutive games. Troy Percival got the first save on June 29; J.P. Howell earned the save on June 30; Grant Balfour picked up the save on July 1, and Dan Wheeler saved the game on July 2.

    At the time, I wondered if any other team accomplished this feat. I still don't know the answer.

    Does anyone know of any other team that had 4 different players earn a save in 4 straight games?

  28. Josh Says:

    it makes sense to do it, especially on good teams with weak bullpens. your #1-#3 pitchers become an elite 8th inning man on their throw day. your #4 pitcher is a solid 7th inning man. your #5 pitcher in most cases can help the team by just doing the bullpen session.

  29. jj3bagger Says:

    In theory, instead having starting pitchers pitch their throw days in the bullpen before the game, you could use them in the game, but I don't think the results would be good overall. Garza gave up a run in his save, for example. I would imagine that the effort level and intensity on a side session would pale in comparison with what is needed in a high leverage situation out of the bullpen. Also, side sessions are mainly used to 'get in work' meaning keeping pitches sharp, etc., not to get out major league hitters.
    I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but I think the reasons above in addition to many more are why it hasn't been already tried. The Rays used Garza because they had to, not because they wanted to, per se.

  30. Pete Says:

    Getting back to the original question....in addition to Goose Gossage in 1976, I found another guy who started a game and got a save in the same series. The O's Dennis Martinez in 1980.

    On Monday, September 29, 1980, Denny pitched a complete game and got the win against Boston. Apparently that wasn't enough to tire him out, because he was brought in on Thursday, October 1, to pitch 3 1/3 scoreless innings to get the save in the final game of the 4-game series.

  31. JeffW Says:

    Just because they don't do it now doesn't mean it can't be done.

    It's been done before, and pitchers -- like any other athletes -- are supposed to be bigger, stronger, better than their predecessors. That's what evolution is all about, right?

    The only problem I see is that pitchers have become too pampered, too accustomed to a set routine. Everything has to be perfect.

    What's wrong with a little flexability? Having starters availble now and then on other days might mean being able to cut back to as few as 10 pitchers, especially with it being so easy to call someone up from the minors, if need be.

    Turn those two extra roster spots into some bench versatility.

  32. Andy Says:

    Yeah, keep in mind that big changes in ANY industry don't happen quickly. Nobody is suggesting that teams should come back from the All-Star break and all starters should be throwing their side sessions in games. But what might happen is that one manager will start pitching a couple of his starters on their off-days, first periodically and then more routinely. And if that is successful, soon other managers will start thinking about it and even some players will say--if so-and-so can do it and pitch more innings, then I want to do it too.

    I had hope that when Torre did it with both Pettitte and Wang that it was the beginning of this new trend, but it hasn't happened many times since then.

    No change is ever sudden. For example, when teams switched from 4-man starting rotations to 5-man rotations, it happened very gradually (over years), with one team (the Reds I think) holding out with a 4-man rotation for a long time. Recently, a few teams have used 4-man rotations for short periods and I've heard a fair amount of chatter that this could be the start of all of MLB switching back to 4-man rotations. If so, it's going to take years.

  33. Andy Says:

    JT in what ways do yo feel like David Wells....bloated? hung over?

  34. Fireworks Says:

    Andy, the point about starters throwing in games on their throw days is exactly what I was thinking when I was watching Garza come in for relief against the Sox. If a guy is going to throw anyway, why not in a game? I'd rather get an inning from CC or Andy or Javy or Phil or... well, not from A.J., than from Chan Ho Park.

  35. Johnny Twisto Says:

    Sort of gouty.

  36. JeffW Says:

    Andy,

    I agree. It won't happen overnight. But we didn't get to this point that way, either.

    The move to five-man rotations is understandable, as much as some may hate the notion. Surprisingly, it probably has as much to do with scheduling as anything else. I wrote about this at another site recently.

    My theory is that owners' greed has much to do with it, in the form of eliminating the old-school, 2-for-the-price-of-1 doubleheaders. That spread the games out more, killing off-days, which were also impacted by the expansion of the schedule to 162 games.

    It's funny. You might think "More games, more starts." Not so.

    The end of planned doubleheaders occurred in our lifetimes (mine, anyway), when the owners decided that the single-game gate receipts were more important than the good will proffered by the old "two-for-the-price-of-one" scheduled twinbills.

    But the double-dips may have also had another advantage: more days off during the season. Granted, it was necessary for travel in the train-riding days.

    Players today complain about how hectic things are, how few off-days there are, and then you toss in the multitude of two-game series wedged into the schedule by interleague play (too many different teams to play results in shorter series). It doesn't hurt when you're at home, but on the road...

    Why not start scheduling a few twinbills again, to open up more leisure days in the schedule?

    The obvious answer: profits. Pure and simple. Especially with so many new palaces to pay for. The last thing the Mets and Yankees are going to do is start giving away free games...

    Back in those days, there were frequent gaps of two -- maybe three -- days (even more), when teams were riding the rails, or maybe waiting for other teams to catch up.

    If you were traveling from Boston to St. Loo, there would necessarily be at least a day or two just to get there. As travel times got shorter, and Big League Baseball went bi-coastal, those empty days gradually disappeared. Doubleheaders became less frequent, and the games were spread out more, filling the gaps.

    Maybe no one wanted to double-dip in St. Louis at the end of August. In those heavy flannels. In 100+ heat/humidity. But you always knew there were days off to recuperate.

    I might possibly also find anecdotal information that would say regulars played a higher percentage of their teams' games in those days, too, because they had more days off built into the schedule.

    Look at how long it took someone (Ripken) to break Lou Gehrig's record. Gehrig had actually been a teammate of Everett Scott, whose record he eventually broke. Gehrig's streak started just about four weeks after Scott's ended.

    Back in the four-man rotation, 300 innings (or more) and 20+ CG's for the top dogs days, starters had the same number -- or possibly more -- days off between starts because of the travel. The open dates allowed them to pitch in more of their teams' games, but still get the rest they needed. Every fifth day might be every fourth game. Or third, in some stretches.

    In a random search, I looked at the Cincinnati Reds' schedules for 1930 and 2010, to back up my hypothesis of days off. The Reds were pretty-much centrally-located in the old pre-expansion National League alignment, so there shouldn't be too many long, St. Louis-to-Boston-style trips. In 1930, the Reds had 43 dates listed as having been open (doesn't take into account possible rainouts).

    If the 2010 Reds play their entire schedule as it has been laid out, they will have just 19 open dates. And four of those are built into the All-Star Break. Wow.

    Yes, I know they play eight more games. But those eight games are absorbed by making the season two weeks longer. Even so...just 19 days off, versus 43.

    I checked this year's Indians' schedule. They have a total of 20 open dates, not counting whether or not any of the previous games were forced open by rainouts.

    Less than half the open dates, despite being able to get from Seattle to Tampa in less time than it used to take to get from Boston to Pittsburgh. And most of those open dates are mandated by contract between the owners and the union.

    There's more, but I want to break it down into two (somewhat) shorter posts.

  37. Anon Says:

    June 5th, 2001 - Wakefield comes in in the 18th and gets the win against the Tigers
    June 7th - Wakefield starts against the Tigers and gets the win, going 6 IP

  38. JeffW Says:

    Anon,

    I love the knuckleballers. Every team should have a couple. Those mid-'60's White Sox clubs, with Wilhelm, Fisher and Wood, must have been more fun than a barrel of monkeys for the catchers.

    Note that Smoky Burgess was the smart one. In 1967, the veteran receiver appeared in 77 games, all as a pinch hitter! He caught no games, not even an inning.

  39. JeffW Says:

    Earlier, I had touched briefly on bringing in a game-two starter to close out the ninth inning of the opener (if need be), then go ahead with his own start.

    Sounds goofy in the modern era, but if your pen was shorthanded or overworked (or just plain lousy), let the next starter finish up, then proceed straight into his own game. Treat the break between games as if your team just had a long inning and scored seven or eight runs. Save the pen to finish the nightcap.

    On Aug. 4, 1922, Pete Alexander tossed a scoreless ninth to preserve a 3-2 win, then tossed a complete-game six-hitter in the nightcap, though he lost, 2-1.

    The break between games used to be relatively brief, as opposed to today's split double-dips. A game-two starter might pitch late in the opener, take that short break, maybe warm up again or do some soft-tossing to stay loose, then go back to work.

    George Uhle did it once in 1923, and Walter Johnson did it twice, so it wasn't all that rare an occurrence. I could probably find more, if I wanted to take the time to check everyone's game logs.

    And starting both ends of a double-dip wasn't limited to Iron Joe McGinnity. "Jughandle Johnny" Morrison did it Sept. 18, 1922, pitching a nine-inning CG victory, then seven innings of one-run ball on the back-end, though the Pirates lost that one after Morrison left.

    Unfortunately, in another nod to owner greed, today's doubleheaders are mostly scheduled by necessity (rainouts, etc.). They feature an afternoon game and -- after the stadium is emptied and tidied-up -- a second contest (with its own separate paid admission). No one would want a hurler to pitch an inning, sit for two or three hours, then start a later game.

    Because of the lack of twinbills, today's games come in a steady drip...drip...drip. And if you can't count on starters to finish games, relievers are out there literally every day. Again, and again, and again.

    As the season plays out, the starters -- in a five-man rotation now, rather than the old four-man lineup -- are getting their days between turns all right. But the pen, as a whole, is not. Maybe that is where it has become "necessary" to have so many of them.

    In an old school four-game series, you might be able to count on your starters to complete at least half of those games. Also, starters were supposed to finish. They owned their games. The pen was simply extra arms, just in case something (bad) happened. They were the guys who just weren't good enough to be the starters.

    Your relievers then had little bits and pieces to fill in, and everyone had plenty of time to rest their arms on the train ride to the next town.

    This also possibly has an effect on the entire team. Regulars (Cal notwithstanding) may be less likely to go on extensive consecutive-game streaks. There are fewer players who would even consider playing every game. Playing every day. The last streak of 300+ games came to a close when Miguel Tejada's run ended at 1152 on June 22, 2007. That was the fifth-longest streak of all time.

    Through July 8 of this season, Prince Fielder has the longest active streak, at 271. Only four players last season, and just three in 2008, played every game. This changes greatly, from season-to-season. There were 10 such players in 2005. But that was the first time since 1954 that this had happened.

    While it wasn't a sure thing in the pre-war era, there were three instances of 10 or more players playing every game (in a season) between 1920 and 1940.

    Managers nowadays are hyper-aware of the need to give players days off -- taking important regulars out of the lineup and lessening their chances of winning, mind you -- because there are so few opportunities provided in the schedule.

    Playing every game might have been a lot easier, though, when you had 43 days off mixed in there with them. And it was likely easier to get by with a smaller staff, too.