Ryne Duren
Posted by Steve Lombardi on January 7, 2011
Ryne Duren passed away today. He was 29-years old in his first full season in the majors - and he saved 20 games that year.
How many other pitchers saved 20+ games in a season, within their first three seasons in the majors, when they were 29-years old? Not many. Here's the list:
| Rk | Player | SV | Year | Age | Tm | Lg | G | GS | CG | SHO | GF | W | L | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | HR | BF | AB | 2B | 3B | IBB | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | PO | BK | WP | Pit | Str | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Tyler Walker | 23 | 2005 | 29 | SFG | NL | 67 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 39 | 6 | 4 | .600 | 61.2 | 68 | 31 | 29 | 27 | 54 | 4.23 | 102 | 9 | 279 | 242 | 12 | 1 | 6 | 3 | 5 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4 | .281 | .359 | .450 | .809 | 114 | 1045 | 645 |
| 2 | Bob Locker | 20 | 1967 | 29 | CHW | AL | 77 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 47 | 7 | 5 | .583 | 124.2 | 102 | 34 | 29 | 23 | 80 | 2.09 | 144 | 5 | 503 | 458 | 7 | 3 | 5 | 10 | 8 | 3 | 13 | 10 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 7 | .223 | .273 | .284 | .557 | 75 | ||
| 3 | Ryne Duren | 20 | 1958 | 29 | NYY | AL | 44 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 33 | 6 | 4 | .600 | 75.2 | 40 | 20 | 17 | 43 | 87 | 2.02 | 176 | 4 | 307 | 254 | 6 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 3 | 0 | 8 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .157 | .296 | .228 | .524 | 53 |
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January 7th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
I remember hearing a story about how Ryne Duren would wear dark glasses and claimed to be legally blind in order to scare hitters. Gleeman says he would also intentionally throw wild warmup pitches to intimidate opponents. Sort of like a real-life Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughn.
January 7th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
@1
They were "Coke bottle" glasses...huge, thick lens. And he did throw warmup pitches onto the screen, intentionally or (perhaps) not. Control wasn't in Ryne's vocabulary...heat was. I believed he battled alcoholism for most of his adult life and eventually became an advocate for AA. RIP.
January 7th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Sean;
How decent of you to create a thread like this as a sendoff to a relatively obscure kid who died too early. Damn decent of you.
January 7th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
oops, I thought he was a reliever from today I'd never heard of who died at 29.
still damn decent of of Sean
January 7th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
I was a fan of Duren, and loved to watch opposing batters shudder when he would do his wild warming up. By the time they got to face him, most batters were intimidated enough {or smart enough} to consider "digging in" to mean being in the same zip code as home plate.
May G-d be ready to bail out if Duren comes in to face him.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
Could you please re-post this in large print? I can't find my glasses.......:)
January 7th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
# 5 Frank.
What a post. Wonderful.
There's a lot of arguing and shouting on this page, and I'm as guilty as anyone.
To all the Sabremetric guys out there, all we're saying is this:
Stats are an important measure of a player's value. So are anecdotes like Frank's.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
I read sometime ago that Ryne Sandberg claims his dad named him after Duren.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
Duren was the first closer who used intimidation as part of his act. Before Dick Radatz, long before Al Hrabosky, Duren was the first guy to come on in the late innings and just bring the gas. Unfortunately, his drinking killed his career and it was not successful for long. Like Bo Belinsky, I'm glad he was able to dry out and face the rest of his life sober instead of living the rest of his days as a drunk.
January 7th, 2011 at 8:28 pm
@8: I read sometime ago that Ryne Sandberg claims his dad named him after Duren.
For what it's worth, that's what Sandberg's Wikipedia entry says.
January 7th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
I saw Ryne pitch for the Phillies when I was a kid-after a commercial break,
there was a delay-Ryne, warming up between innings, hit the home plate ump,
who was nowhere near the plate, in the throat with a warmup pitch. He was wild
for sure. RIP Ryne.
January 8th, 2011 at 12:58 am
Duren makes a very short and interesting list.
Pitchers with greater than 40 IP with both SO & BB greater or equal to IP.
1984 Mark Clear 67 IP/ 76 SO/ 70 BB
1960 Ryne Duren 49 IP/ 67 SO/ 49BB
1977 John D'Acquisto 52.1 IP/ 54 SO/ 57 BB
1993 Rob Dibble 41.2 IP/ 49 SO/ 42 BB
Effectively wild.
January 8th, 2011 at 1:03 am
I lowered the standard to 30 IP, but no new names popped up, so I lowered it again to 20 IP (I know, not a big sample), but three more names came up, and I bet I could of guessed them.
Mitch Williams 1994
Mark Wohlers 1998
Rick Ankiel 2001
January 8th, 2011 at 2:09 am
Way before my time, but I used to hear stories about him. Supposedly one of the hardest throwers ever, but never had poor control. Looking at his early MLB numbers I can believe it. Low hits-per-innings count, high strikeout rate, high walk rate. Yet up until today, I never took a look at his minor league numbers. Surprising it took him so long to get a shot at the majors. There's nothing amazing in his minor league numbers, far from it, yet considering his velocity and low hits-per-innings rate in the minors, it is interesting it took him so long to get to the majors. He was also a starter, something he rarely did in the majors.
RIP.
January 8th, 2011 at 2:09 am
...never had "good" control.
January 8th, 2011 at 4:28 am
Dukeofflatbush @12 -- I love that list, and thanks for reminding me of John D'Acquisto.
But "effectively wild"? Three of the four years you cited were just awful -- Duren had a 72 ERA+ in 1960, D'Acquisto a 56 ERA+ in '77 and Dibble a 63 ERA+ in 1993. Clear had a 105 ERA+ in 1984, which wasn't bad but not good for a reliever.
All these guys had their ups and downs. They were most effective when they were least wild. Very few pitchers have had success while walking over 6 per 9 IP.
P.S. Dibble actually had average control in his first 5 years, averaging 3.3 BB/9 with a K/BB ratio of 3.8. But in his last 2 seasons, Dibble issued 88 walks in 68 innings -- 11.6 BB/9 -- with a K/BB ratio of 0.85.
D'Acquisto was one of the wildest pitchers ever to have a career of any length. Among pitchers with at least 500 IP, D'Acquisto's 6.28 BB/9 (in 780 IP) is topped only by Tommy Byrne (6.85) and the one and only "Wild Thing" (7.08).
January 8th, 2011 at 4:44 am
Re: how long it took Duren to escape the minors:
It looks like a simple matter of waiting for him to show some semblance of control. At age 22, he walked 194 in 198 IP. It took him 5 more years to whittle his walk rate below 5.6 BB/9. In his final 2 years on the farm, his control improved dramatically, to 3.8 and then 2.6 BB/9; he was called up for good the following year (1958), and led the league in saves and placed 2nd in the ROY vote (though he would not have qualified as a rookie by today's standard.) It wasn't until '64, his next-to-last year, that he had a MLB season with less than 5 BB/9
Duren threw 1 shutout among his 32 big-league starts -- a 3-hitter with 1 walk against Cleveland in 1961.
January 8th, 2011 at 10:33 am
@1 That story must get retold numerous times every generation. My dad has a story like that from the 50's when he was playing in the Baltimore chain. Said there was a guy who threw so hard and wore coke bottle glasses. He said that one of the infielders would have to point him in the direction of the plate he was so blind. Interesting that Duren also played for Baltimore.
January 8th, 2011 at 11:12 am
Happened to be in the tiny town of cazenovia, wi. Last summer and was watching some little league games and there on thewooden announcers stand was a little sign saying it is the home of ryne duran. Home folk said he still lived around there and was a local legend. Very Americana.
January 8th, 2011 at 11:34 am
One night back in the fifties and while I was serving in the Air Force in Fort Worth, Texas, I was attending a game between the Fort Worth Cats and the visiting San Antonio Missions.
I often attended Cats games, partly because they had a very good deal for servicemen, and also since it provided a source of cheap entertainment. I used to sit near the Fort Worth bullpen where I'd spend time chatting with the guys who were part of the bullpen crew, and when Ryne Duren entered the game somewhere around the seventh inning or so and proceeded to toss his first warm up about half way up the backstop, I asked the guys if they had any fear about standing in the batters box when Duren was on the mound.
Joe Pignatano, a reserve catcher who later spent a few years in the big show quickly replied that he'd noticed that the only time that Ryne Duren threw pitches that were off the mark when there was a batter and it really counted came when those pitches were "just about two inches from the hitter's chin".
January 8th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
I always loved the Ryne Duren stories.
As for D'Acquisto, as a kid I didn't realize he was of any note, and he doesn't usually come up, so thanks for the info, which caused me to look him up again.
Interesting list, which I would have guessed Duren to be on, but not D'Acquisto: Guys with 700 IP and 6 K/9 AND 6 BB/9. Only three guys!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=L7PG8
January 8th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Bouton makes a great comparison in Ball Four, when Sal Maglie is giving him all kinds of trouble for wanting to throw the knuckleball all the time. Maglie says you can't away with being a one-pitch pitcher. Bouton's reply brings up Duren, whose one pitch was the wild warmup. Cracks me up every time.
January 8th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
I met Ryne in Harrisburg, Pa. He was a humble guy. He told me he started drinking heavily, when he joined the Yankees. He said he would he would throw the ball as hard as he could, and he never had any real control, and never knew where the ball would end up. Ryne said he was always very nervous, being on a championship team.But he laughed and said the joke was on the batter. Not only was the batter facing a wild pitcher, but Ryne admitted that, to calm himself, he would have a couple of shots of brandy before going out on the mound. The opposition always feared Duren since they never knew what to expect, but the drinks got the best of him.
January 8th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@ John Autin,
When I said effectively wild, I was being a bit facetious. EFFECTIVELY WILD - is something I always heard from windbags on ESPN or FOX. I do believe there is such a thing, but the implication is that the pitcher is in fact not wild, but putting the ball where he wants in order to 'set' up a hitter or pitch around a hitter. I don't think 'wild' has anything to do with it. In fact, to be EFFECTIVELY WILD, I would say you need good control, which no one on that list has or had.
Sad to see Mitch Willimas stats after the '93 Joe Carter/Series Homer.
3yrs - 37.1IP - 7.96 ERA - 12.5 BB/9IP - 9.6SO/9IP.
That would make a great thread. Players who had a single moment or play alter their career so profoundly.
I remember Dickie Thon not being the same after a beaning.
Ditto for Kevin Seitzer, whom made a decent return but said he had to pray everyday and visit church just to get in the box.
I also think (different sport) but the guy who missed the field goal for Buffallo in '91 in the Super Bowl never played again.
Anybody else remember guys who had one play change their career?
January 8th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
@Dukeofflatbush #24
Donnie Moore has to be the most obvious example, right? Tom Niedenfuer had an ERA+ of 139 prior to Ozzie Smith's homerun in the 1985 NLCS and 94 after. He was 25 at the time. Bill Buckner was already 36 in 1986, but had a 103 OPS+ prior to Mookie Wilson and 69 after. I guess that doesn't really qualify though. And how about Wohlers post-Jim Leyritz and Rocker post racial tirade?
Scott Norwood was the Bills' kicker.
January 8th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
I was watching the Yankees' Old-Timers' Day one year, I think around 1982 or '83, on Channel 11, and Duren was pitching to Joe Pepitone, then in his long hair AND beard phase. And Mel Allen, piped into the public-address, said, "Don't worry, Joe, he won't hit you! Hard!"
January 8th, 2011 at 3:54 pm
I am Ryne's stepdaughter. You are all a bit mistaken. He has been sober for 43 years. He was a great man and full of love and support for his family. We will miss him beyond measure. He has supported many charitable causes and his ability to help people without judgement is unmatched.
January 8th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
To Daughter;
I at least never intended to impune Duren's memory, and hope you didn't take my earlier comments that way. Please accept my condolences on your loss, and my condolences to society for the loss of both an All-Star pitcher and a real "All-Star" man who spent years assisting substance abuse patients.
January 8th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
@Bureaucratist
Not sure about Donnie Moore, can you refresh my memory?
Ralph Branca?
January 8th, 2011 at 5:08 pm
Daughter:
I'm sure I speak for the entire baseball community when I say that we are saddened by your loss. Please take comfort in the fact that many of us have fond memories, and often funny ones, of one of the most unique pitchers to play this game at the highest level.
Your step-father was very forthright about his problems with alcohol in his younger years, but has been an ambassador for sobriety and an outstanding example to recovering alcoholics for decades.
January 8th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
Dukeofflatbush @24 re: "effectively wild" meant facetiously --
Yeah, I should have guessed that. Sometimes I'm a bit thick about nuances like that.
Re: Donnie Moore -- He took his own life a few years after losing a game that would have clinched the Angels' first pennant.
In game 5 of the 1986 ALCS, with the Angels leading 3-1 in games and 5-4 in the top of the 9th, one out away from the World Series, Moore was summoned to close it out. But Dave Henderson hit a 2-run HR to put the BoSox in front. The Angels tied it up in the bottom half; but with Moore still pitching in the Red Sox 11th, the first 3 men reached base, and Henderson hit a sac fly for what proved to be the winning run. The series returned to Boston, and the Sox won the last 2 games easily.
Some people who knew him have said that Moore blamed himself and never got over that loss. But other factors should also be noted. The tragic event occurred just after he had been released by KC; he had been pitching at AAA, trying to get back to the majors. He had missed most of 1987 with injury, though he pitched pretty well when he was able. But he was ineffective in '88 and was released before the year was out; he was 34 and never got back to the big leagues. It also seems that he was having marital problems, which may or may not have been connected with his career troubles. From Wikipedia:
------------------------
On July 18, 1989, during an argument with his wife Tonya, Moore shot her three times, the incident occurring in view of their three children at their Anaheim Hills home. Tonya Moore and daughter Demetria, then 17 years of age, fled from the house and Demetria drove her mother to the hospital. Both survived the shooting.
Back inside the house, still in the presence of one of his sons, Moore then fatally shot himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_Moore
January 9th, 2011 at 2:53 am
I am surprised that nobody has brought up The Legend of Steve Dalkowski here.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:30 am
Heard your father on the air with David Stein not long ago. He was very entertaining and full of great stories. He'll be missed.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:37 am
A nice reflective piece on Duren's passing, which includes interviews with a few teammates, opponents and his co-author of I Can See Clearly Now.
Ryne Duren's impact was a lot stronger than his 100 MPH fastball
January 9th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Hey Mike,
Thanks for the Steve Dalkowski story/info.
This is half the reason I love this sight.
I did some research on him and he seemed a real scream.
He had 13.78 Ks and 13.78 BBs per 9 IP in one minor league season.
Sad alcohol played a part in so many great fire ballers.
Sam McDowell, Duren, and Dalkowski.
January 9th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Facing a guy like Duren in those days was nothing like today. My dad told me that they didn't have batting helmets in those days; all they had was a little piece of plastic that fit inside their cap to go over your temple. And numerous guys were hit in the head. Probably more than today. Can you imagine the pain? I don't know if I read it on this site, but Lou Gehrig's decline in health is now being looked at as a result of numerous beanings rather than the infamous ALS named after him.
January 9th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
I had the privildge of meeting Ryne Duren, and being on a first name basis with him through a group called Winning Beyond Winning. Ryne took a major role in this organization which teaches kids how to handle the "Outside the Lines" issues like substance abuse. He was extremely humble, but was very proud of his fight against alchohalism. He was sober for more than 40 years at the end of his life. I will remember him as a man, but don't sell him short as a Pitcher. I saw him pitch, and if you look at the numbers, you can come up with a pretty good career if he had been able to get to the Majors at a younger age, and if he had not become adicted to alchohal. May he rest in peace, and may his family have proud memories of a man who turned his worst enemy into an asset for hundreds of young people.
January 9th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
I had the pleasure of working with Ryne Duren at Stoughton Hospital in the first ever community hospital alcoholism program. Ryne helped created rehab as we know it today. He was almost legally blind - the "coke bottle glasses" were not a prop. He was one of a kind. I only wish he would be remembered for the generations of people he helped through rehab as well as his major league baseball career.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:23 pm
My recollection is that Earl Weaver managed Dalkowski one season and helped him cut his walk-rate way down. I think this was 1962 in Elmira. Perhaps he could have turned into a real prospect instead of a freakshow, but he then hurt his arm and was never able to reach the majors.
January 10th, 2011 at 12:18 am
I just pulled down my copy of "Baseball Stars of 1959" which highlights the stars of 1958 (assuming they would still be stars in '59), and read the article on Ryne Duren.
Always a starter in the minors (his high school coach tried to make him an outfielder), he landed with the Seatle Raniers in '55 where Larry Jansen was still hanging on. Jansen showed him how to rock his body back to give him better balance. The next year, he crossed the border to Vancouver where Lefty O'Doul was managing the Mounties, who worked with him and Duren's control improved remarkaby.
He was Kansas City property when Billy Martin was traded to the A's and was included in the return package.
The Yanks sent him to Denver where their old back up catcher, Ralph Houk, was learning to manage. Houk put Duren in the bull pen where he only needed one pitch, his screaming fast ball.
Then on to Yankee Stadium.
January 10th, 2011 at 12:39 am
@40 John W. Shreve -- Thanks for the details on Duren's improved control. And I hope you're taking good care of that book -- looks like it's a collectible.
January 10th, 2011 at 11:43 am
I bought Ryne's book, "The Comeback" a few years ago and noticed it was autographed by him on the inside cover. It was a very humbling and honest look at one's faults but more importantly it was about what he did about the problems he had. Also, it detailed how he set out to help others...clearly he should be remembered for that more than anything. God rest his soul...
January 10th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
To Ryne Duren's daughter:
Your father comes across, in Jane Leavy's new biography of Mantle, as compassionate, frank, and courageous, worthy of our highest respect. He certainly has mine. I remember a game at Yankee Stadium - it must have been in 1958 - when your father came on in relief. Now how many pitches (not home runs) can any of us remember clearly from 52 years ago? I remember exactly one: your father's first warm-up. It did, indeed, hit the netting that protected the stands behind home plate, on the fly. A fond memory. And to him: thank you!
warm regards,
Peter Mark
January 10th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@24:
Ray Chapman was never the same after his beaning.
January 10th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Curious that NY Times obit by Richard Goldstein (link below) while well-written, did not mention Duren's helping other major leaguers with their alcoholism.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/sports/08duren.html?scp=1&sq=ryne%20duren&st=cse
In contrast, the shorter AP obit (link below) quoted Bobby Richardson about the many players Duren helped with their alcoholism.
http://online.wsj.com/article/APd60d9df4f3174ccdba1352dfd5f09e85.html
Any thoughts, other than limited space in NYTimes?
January 10th, 2011 at 9:32 pm
#24.
Another example of a single play changing a career was the line drive Earl Averill hit in the All-Star Game in the '30s. It didn't change Averill's career; but it sure changed life for ol' Dizzy Dean.
January 13th, 2011 at 2:43 am
arrgggh, posts 13 and 24 already mentioned the name, but the first name, that popped into my mind, when I saw this thread, was, "Mitch Williams." For many years after, ESPN would show a clip of Carter hitting "that" homer, and I would have to turn away.....
I will add, that at the end of that year, Mitch had lost his fastball, maybe due to fatigue, overuse?? and so I'd say maybe that his career might have been done at that point anyway- not due to giving up the homer.
January 13th, 2011 at 2:47 am
has anyone mentioned Herb Score, as someone who had their career changed by an unfortunate event?