Sam Fuld & missing the cycle by a single
Posted by Andy on April 12, 2011
Sam Fuld missed the cycle by a single last night.
I've written about missing the cycle by a single quite a bit before:
- Last year I listed the players to do it the most often after Ian Stewart did it for the second time
- In 2008 I wrote about it after Dustin Pedroia did the feat, joining past and future teammates Adrian Gonzalez and Eric Hinske that season.
- Way back in July 2007 when this blog first started (holy smokes...is that really almost 4 years ago already?) I did a detailed study about missing the cycle by each different type of hit
April 12th, 2011 at 8:43 am
He didn't just miss the cycle by a single--he came to the plate in the 9th needing only a single and hit a double down the LF line.
You could see Maddon teasing him about it after the game.
April 12th, 2011 at 9:43 am
What was bizarre about it is that with such an enormous lead, who would have criticized him for stopping a first?
April 12th, 2011 at 10:55 am
@ #2 - Pretty much everyone, I think. Even though players try to pad their stats and accomplishments all the time, being that blatant about it would have provoked some pretty vicious sports editorials, methinks.
April 12th, 2011 at 11:26 am
Fuld tied the Rays' franchise record with 4 extra-base hits, done 4 times previously, last in 2006.
It would have been just the 2nd cycle in franchise history.
Pretty good game, considering that Fuld barely had a career cycle before.
April 12th, 2011 at 11:29 am
Discussion question:
Assuming that you think Fuld would have been wrong to deliberately stop at first base in order to complete the cycle, what would you say if, in the exact same game circumstances, he had needed the double for the cycle and had brazenly tried to stretch a routine single? Any difference in your judgment of the play?
April 12th, 2011 at 11:40 am
The score was 14-5 in the ninth inning.
It would not have been wrong. I'd bet the Rays' Kangaroo Court fined him for NOT stopping, probably had to pick up the postgame beer tab or something.
The second scenario is a little more touchy as it could be construed by some as an attempt to show up the Red Sox or run up the score.
I don't think anyone on the Sox would be offended, it's a utility guy having a career game, good for him.
April 12th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
I recall reading a few years back...I believe it was someone from the Astros who could have become the first player to hit for the cycle for them, but stretched the final single into a double and became the first (Astro) to have 4 long hits in a game.
April 12th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
I'll take 2 Doubles, a Triple, and HR with 3 RBI and 3 R over "The Cycle" any day. Sam Fuld more than anything hustles. That's what i loved about him when he was in Chicago.
I don't feel like he missed the cycle; i feel like he one-up it!
He wouldn't stop short for a single, because he plays the game right. I give him more respect because he hustled for the Double.
Not to mention his fielding skills are out of this world! He even had a fantastic grab in this game!
Sam Fuld's Amazing Grabs
April 12th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
I remember Jeff Frye's cycle for the Blue Jays in 2001.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TOR/TOR200108170.shtml
Same situation, blow-out, late innings, needs the single. He hit a line drive into the center-right gap, and could have walked into second. But, the first-base coach put up the stop sign big time - did everything short of running on the field and grabbing Frye to keep him at first.
I don't recall Frye or the Blue Jays being criticized for doing that.
April 12th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
I agree. The cycle just looks kind of cool, but it's better to have the four XBH.
April 12th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
JA-
From a subjective standpoint, I'm not sure where I fall.
Objectively, though, I'd be curious if the numbers would dictate which was more "wrong" (wrong defined as worse for the team). With the lead what it was, it is unlikely it would have made a difference anyway.
But, what is the value lost turning a sure 2B in to a 1B? What is the value lost in turning a sure 1B into a sure out? I think the answer to that question is obvious: the extra out is far worse than the lost base.
But let's say it was a sure 2B vs 50% chance of out? 80% 2B vs 30% chance of out?
April 12th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
I remember when Kelly Gruber hit a cycle for the Jays, and his last hit was a "long" single. Everyone teased him about "stretching a double into a single," but I don't recall any serious criticism of his decision to stop at 1st.
April 12th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
@ John Autin,
Both hypothetical plays are selfish. The score does play a factor. But still, what if Fuld stopped at first and the next batter grounded into a DP, then the opposition roars back and takes the lead, however unlikely.
You and I once chatted about Rickey Henderson having a very suspect few triples and doubles, especially with the combo of 3,000 hits and the greatest wheels the game has ever known.
To put into context, Jim Rice had more triples than Rickey in 600 less hits.
and Biggio, who was fast but not as fast as Rickey, had 150 more doubles than Rickey with nearly identical hit totals.
How many times did Rickey pull up short of a double, only to have the opportunity to steal second?
I think we all agreed it was poor sportsmanship if true, and I think the same would apply hear.
Cheers to Fuld (if he really knew).
April 12th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
here (duh)
April 12th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
To even suggest to stop at first is ridiculous. Play the game the way it's meant to be played and that was an easy double. Fuld should be commended for not trying to get a made-up cool stat in the box score.
April 12th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
@5 John Austin -
I don't really care if a guy stops at first or takes the double, to be honest, when it's a blowout like that. Of course if it comes back to bite him, well, then that's another issue.
The big difference between stretching the single into a double and stopping at first is that a double is of greater value, while @11 BSK points out that stretching that single into a double and not succeeding is certainly more harmful.
So here's my take in brief:
- Stretching the single into a double and succeeding = perfectly good for everyone. No problem.
- Stopping at first when you could easily reach second = whatever, but it's blatantly selfish and a ridiculous way to play baseball. And it's not team-centric playing, which is rightly frowned upon.
- Trying to stretch the single into a double to get the cycle and failing = the worst of all. Bad for the player, bad for the team, and really not how you play baseball.
April 12th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
I don't think Rickey stopped at first to get more steals. That's ridiculous. He hit enough singles and took enough walks as it was.
Rickey was a right hander, and he has a swing that doesn't lend itself well to getting out of the box. He also didn't get many infield hits for that reason. Rickey was mostly a punch it back up the middle type of hitter, and he didn't go down the right field line much . He also had enough power that when he hit hammer one, it went for a homer quite often.
Do people remember cycles that much anyways? I think I'd rather have a box score showing 2 doubles, a triple, and a homer, just as I'd take a 4 homer game over that. I can remember all the 4 homer games that have happened in my lifetime, but if it wasn't for this thread, I don't think I would remember ANY cycles.
April 12th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
Darryl Strawberry in a 23-10 game at Wrigley in 1987 or 1988 did this. I think 1987.
April 12th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
Conor Jackson, Dmitri Young, Eddie Mathews and Willie Mays all did the amazing:
They only needed a double for the cycle... and did NOT stop at second but hit a second triple.
Mays had 2 homers, 2 triples and a single.
April 12th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
To document my statement in 18 (interrupted by the petty cash auditor - kind of have to talk to that guy), on August 16th 1987 Strawberry went 4-5 with 2 2Bs, 1 3B, and 1 HR (he also walked, scored 5 runs and drove in 5 and stole a base) in a 23-10 win at Wrigley. In the 8th inning (his last PA) he doubled.
I couldn't tell you what shirt I wore yesterday but I remember Strawberry doing that 24 years ago.
April 12th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
Doug B-
Wait just a goddamned second...
Dmitri Young had TWO triples??? In the same game???
April 12th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
[...] Andy K. summarizes the historical research on players who missed hitting for the cycle by a single. Link Posted on Tuesday, April 12th, 2011 at 5:28 pm, Category: Baseball, Tags: bref, history, [...]
April 12th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
BSK and Doug B -
Wait a goddamed second....
Dimitri Young had TWO triples???? In the same lifetime???
April 12th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
@ 24
Great anecdote. I vaguely remember that game and remember thinking Straw was going to be something special, that i was watching a legend.
I also feel the same shame about baseball knowledge. I don't know the date I met my wife but I know most of George Brett's or Eddie Murray's career #s.
April 12th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
@ Jimbo
Biggio had 5 more hits than Henderson and 6 less HRs. I don't think two guys are closer in those two stats.
Biggio was a right hander also.
For Biggio's 3000 hit, he was thrown out attempting to stretch a single into a double.
I saw Henderson play live near 50-60 times, and I can say he never busted it out of the box. Maybe he didn't do it for the SB, but I can assure you he could of had at least 150 more doubles. Saying that, I have to admit that 75% of major leaguers give up on the triple through lack of hustle.
I watch about 500 games a year. Back in '89 I saw Dawson pop up to the shortstop. Nothing too high, just a pop up. When the short stop finally caught it, Dawson, bad knees and all, was rounding second at 3/4 full speed. I never saw a MLBer do that since and never saw Henderson reach first on a pop up.
April 12th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
@ oneblankspace
The Astro you're referring to is Kevin Bass. The games was from 1987, a 6-5 Astros win at Candlestick. Bass indeed doubled in his last AB, in the 7th.
Bass had 4 RBI to go with his 4 hits, but he didn't get much help from his friends. Despite those 4 XBH, his only run scored was on his home run.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN198706270.shtml
April 12th, 2011 at 7:45 pm
@17,
It's not ridiculous at all to think that Rickey stopped at 2nd so that he could steal 3rd (or stop at 1st so that he could steal 2nd). And, he certainly wasn't slow out of the box because of his swing, he was slow out of the box because he was busy hotdogging! I can't even imagine what his stats would look like if he was a hustler.
April 12th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
welcome back, Statboy!
April 12th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
(I'm still learning the PI, so please don't attack me for this query!)
Couldn't we do some sort of search where we look at the type of hit before each of Rickey's SBs? I thought a while ago there was a post where they were able to detail the type of hit on the given play (e.g., deep flyball to LF). Couldn't we attempt to discern the times that Rickey might have dogged it and then see if he stole more frequently after those instances than normal?
April 12th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
BSK, I'm not sure I understand your question but it doesn't sound like anything we can easily search for. I would suggest you go into Henderson's personal event finder to see what you can find.
April 12th, 2011 at 9:06 pm
If he has gotten thrown out at second it would have been the cycle
April 12th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
@18, Artie Z -- Right you are about Strawberry in '87:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN198708160.shtml
April 12th, 2011 at 10:38 pm
Oops, I didn't realize Artie had already documented the Strawberry game.
BTW, Straw never did get that cycle.
April 12th, 2011 at 10:48 pm
@29, BSK -- What could you find in a play-by-play that would be evidence of Henderson failing to take an extra base on a hit?
April 13th, 2011 at 2:25 am
Since 1919, there are 23 games (but only 22 players) where a player has hit for the cycle and had 4 XBH. Which player has done it twice? Hint: he did it once before WWII and once after.
BTW, the record for XBH in a game is 5, done 6 times (most recently by Kelly Stoppach, of all people). However, none of those 30 XBH was a triple, so no cycles there.