Leaving The Cake Out In The Rain
Posted by Steve Lombardi on June 28, 2010
Via Play Index - pitchers since 2001, to date, to come into a game (in relief) and throw 50+ pitches while working an inning or less:
| Rk | Player | Year | #Matching | W | L | GS | CG | SHO | SV | IP | H | ER | HR | BB | SO | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Dan Wheeler | 2004 | 1 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 36.00 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1.0 | 4 | 4 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 8.00 | |
| 2 | Cesar Ramos | 2010 | 1 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 63.00 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1.0 | 7 | 7 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 8.00 | |
| 3 | Hayden Penn | 2009 | 1 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 54.00 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1.0 | 4 | 6 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 7.00 | |
| 4 | Kevin Jarvis | 2004 | 1 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 54.00 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1.0 | 5 | 6 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 8.00 | |
| 5 | Dave Davidson | 2009 | 1 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 45.00 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1.0 | 4 | 5 | 0 | 4 | 3 | 8.00 |
.
Cesar Ramos joined "the club" last month.
Man, that's a lot of labor for not much ROI...these poor guys...left out there to fry.
June 28th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Maybe this post was referencing this, but Johnathan Broxton came awfully close last night in his collapse vs. the Yankees. I think his total pitch count was about 46 or so.
June 28th, 2010 at 11:28 am
And actually, pitched 1 full inning and pitched into the next before being pulled without recording an out
June 28th, 2010 at 11:30 am
Jim - FWIW, that was what gave me the idea for the query.
June 28th, 2010 at 11:37 am
FYI, when lowering it to 45 pitches, Brox makes the list:
http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/PrCaj
June 28th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
What is it that makes Broxton so effective most of the time? I can't imagine that his 95-96 MPH fastball alone is enough to fool most hitters.
June 28th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
First MacArthur Park reference in Baseball-Reference history? 🙂
June 28th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Glad somebody got that one Neil!
June 28th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
I'm probably the only 24 year old on the planet who would... Got any "Wichita Lineman" references you want to lay on me while we're at it?
June 28th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
If I said that McArthur Park was before my time, would anyone believe me?
Seriously, the only single performance I can think of to match that was Joe Nuxhall's debut back in '44 - but then, he was only fifteen at the time. But seriously, Broxton also has a late-iting slider that usually keeps hitters honest; I guess this time, that bite was a little toothless.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
I am sure of the accuracy of this, but ESPN broadcaster Jon Miller said Broxton would not be credited/faulted with a blown save, because he entered in a non-save situation. Please tell me this is not true, not that I put much stock in blown saves, and besides, if it wasn't a save opportunity when he entered, he surely made it a save opportunity by allowing runs and base runners. Am I wrong here. What is the point of that stat if giving up a four run lead in the 9th doesn't qualify?
Or are Joe Morgan and Jon Miler idiots?
The latter is rhetorical.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Wow, on the list of 45-pitches in one inning or less (http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/PrCaj comment #4), Danys Baez is on the list three times. And in one of those outings, he didn't allow a single earned run! 5 hits, 2 BBs, no ER.
June 28th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
Duke, Miller and Morgan were correct. Since he entered at the start of the 9th with a 4-run lead, it was not a save situation. It would've had to be a 3-run lead or less to be a save situation. So you can't blow a save when it wasn't a save situation to begin with. The point of the save rule is to prevent closers from accumulating meaningless saves by 'closing' out a bunch of blowout wins. I think it actually makes a good deal of sense.
June 28th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Joe,
Do agree with you there, on a closer not getting credit for a save when the score differential is greater than 4, but in this case, Broxton, although already in the game, did see his lead fall below 2, creating a save situation. I see the paradox in letting a pitcher's poor performance get rewarded with a save, had he managed to pull it together, but still. If the Dodgers had won it in the bottom half of the 9th, Broxton would of received the win, so poor performance is rewarded often in relief situations. Why not the reciprocal?
I'll kind of put it to you another way, a starting pitcher gives up 4 runs in the 4th inning of a scoreless game. He then gives up 6 in the 5th, but since he is due up in bottom of the inning, the manager leaves him out there to record the third out. Miraculously the pitchers team roars back with an 11th run 5th of their own and holds on for the win. Regardless of his performance, he gets the same W as Halladay did with his perfecto.
I'm just saying, better measures of accountability for Ws, Ls, SVs, & BSs, should be ordered up.
June 28th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
I think all of this just goes to show that taking saves or blown saves seriously as a statistic is perhaps a bit silly.
June 28th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
Duke, I hear what you're saying, but you can't save a situation you create. If you could, you might see closers purposely give up a run or two to create save situations and pad their stats. If the Dodgers had brought in a new pitcher after Broxton had given up a run or two, THEN it would've been a save situation.
As for the example of relievers who come in, blow a lead, and get bailed out by their offense to get credit for a 'win', MLB is going in the right direction with rule 10.17c, stating that a relief pitcher who, in the judgement of the official scorer, pitches briefly and ineffectively should not be credited with a win if a subsequent reliever pitched more effectively.
Either way, this blog has (recently) analyzed the many flaws in the 'win' stat, and I think people who frequent this website are probably aware of the flaws in the 'save' stat, as well. For now, we just have to take them for what they are - flawed stats that can be useful if viewed in the proper context.
June 28th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
Phillies fans somehow have the idea that Broxton blows lots of saves.
June 28th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
We can sit here and talk about "cheap" wins {see the Duke's example, Comment #13} we have to consider that there are enough tough losses to compensate for them. Just ask Bob Hendley -- he pitched a complete game -- a one-hitter, no less -- didn't allow that one hitter to score, and lost {That was Koufax's perfect game in '65}. Who could complain if maybe he was credited with a few cheap wins after a performance like that?
June 28th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
Oh no, I know he's a very good closer, I just can't figure out WHY he is. All he seems to throw is a 95 MPH fastball.
June 28th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Malcolm-
All Mariano does is throw a cutter, but he's a great closer regardless. Being able to put that one pitch wherever can cover up a lot.
June 28th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Malcolm;
Watching him pitch, I can hardly tell during his delivery when he is throwing that decent fastball, or his equally passable slider. I think that's what makes him successful.
June 29th, 2010 at 8:41 am
Mariano also throws sinkers.
June 29th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
OK, I got the MacArthur Park reference right away, but I don't understand why you are alluding to that song's inane lyrics.