Derek Jeter
Posted by Andy on May 8, 2009
It went largely unnoticed, but a few days ago Derek Jeter became the all-time leader for the Yankees, in terms of at-bats:
Cnt Player **AB** From To Ages G PA R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Positions +----+-----------------+---------+----+----+-----+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+ 1 Derek Jeter 8141 1995 2009 21-35 2012 9221 1484 2566 416 57 210 1015 823 29 1392 140 74 43 197 281 75 .315 .386 .458 .844 *6/D 2 Mickey Mantle 8102 1951 1968 19-36 2401 9909 1677 2415 344 72 536 1509 1733 126 1710 13 14 47 113 153 38 .298 .421 .557 .978 *8397/645 3 Lou Gehrig 8001 1923 1939 20-36 2164 9660 1888 2721 534 163 493 1995 1508 0 790 45 106 0 2 102 101 .340 .447 .632 1.079 *3/976 4 Bernie Williams 7869 1991 2006 22-37 2076 9053 1366 2336 449 55 287 1257 1069 97 1212 39 12 64 223 147 87 .297 .381 .477 .858 *8D/97 5 Yogi Berra 7546 1946 1963 21-38 2116 8355 1174 2148 321 49 358 1430 704 49 411 52 9 44 146 30 26 .285 .348 .483 .831 *279/35 6 Babe Ruth 7216 1920 1934 25-39 2084 9197 1959 2518 424 106 659 1975 1852 0 1122 35 94 0 0 110 117 .349 .484 .711 1.195 *97/831 7 Don Mattingly 7003 1982 1995 21-34 1785 7721 1007 2153 442 20 222 1099 588 136 444 21 13 96 191 14 9 .307 .358 .471 .829 *3/D97584 8 Joe DiMaggio 6821 1936 1951 21-36 1736 7671 1390 2214 389 131 361 1537 790 0 369 46 14 0 130 30 9 .325 .398 .579 .977 *8/793 9 Roy White 6650 1965 1979 21-35 1881 7735 964 1803 300 51 160 758 934 66 708 29 53 69 123 233 117 .271 .360 .404 .764 *7D/89534 10 Willie Randolph 6303 1976 1988 21-33 1694 7465 1027 1731 259 58 48 549 1005 29 512 28 75 54 171 251 82 .275 .374 .357 .731 *4/D 11 Bill Dickey 6300 1928 1946 21-39 1789 7060 930 1969 343 72 202 1209 678 0 289 31 51 0 49 37 29 .313 .382 .486 .868 *2 12 Frankie Crosetti 6277 1932 1948 21-37 1683 7273 1006 1541 260 65 98 649 792 0 799 114 90 0 59 113 62 .245 .341 .354 .695 *65/4 13 Tony Lazzeri 6094 1926 1937 22-33 1659 7058 952 1784 327 115 169 1154 830 0 821 19 115 0 0 147 79 .293 .379 .467 .846 *45/637 14 Phil Rizzuto 5816 1941 1956 24-39 1661 6711 877 1588 239 62 38 563 651 1 398 49 193 2 107 149 58 .273 .351 .355 .706 *6/4 15 Earle Combs 5746 1924 1935 25-36 1455 6507 1186 1866 309 154 58 632 670 0 278 17 74 0 0 96 71 .325 .397 .462 .859 *87/9 16 Wally Pipp 5594 1915 1925 22-32 1488 6341 820 1577 259 121 80 827 490 0 495 31 226 0 0 114 60 .282 .343 .414 .757 *3 17 Graig Nettles 5519 1973 1983 28-38 1535 6247 750 1396 202 20 250 834 627 55 739 31 8 62 115 18 25 .253 .329 .433 .762 *5/D6 18 Bobby Richardson 5386 1955 1966 19-30 1412 5783 643 1432 196 37 34 390 262 20 243 7 98 30 100 73 48 .266 .299 .335 .634 *4/56 19 Thurman Munson 5344 1969 1979 22-32 1423 5903 696 1558 229 32 113 701 438 59 571 42 21 58 160 48 50 .292 .346 .410 .756 *2/D9375 20 Jorge Posada 5059 1995 2009 23-37 1506 5966 772 1403 323 9 226 903 802 69 1196 64 1 40 152 17 18 .277 .380 .479 .859 *2/D3
Thanks to their much higher walk totals, Mickey Mantle and Lou Gehrig still have more plate appearances as a Yankee than Jeter although with one more full season after 2009, Jeter will lead there as well.
I find it very tough to rank Jeter's standing as far as the all-time list of Yankees. In truth, I hate making such lists because the fact of the matter is that all 20 guys you see above were, at a minimum, good players that any franchise would like to have had. Does it much matter whether a guy is #4 all time or #7 all time? It still puts him above 99.5% of professional ball players.
As long as we're mentioning difficulty in evaluating players, let me mention that I've always been troubled by Bernie Williams' post-season accomplishments. There is no doubt he was a great player and played a huge role in the Yankees' success from 1996-2003. He holds or held most post-season totals records as far as HR and RBI, but two big factors in those records were that the Yankees were so successful as a franchise, generating many post-season appearances, and each round of the playoffs was much long than in days gone by, giving him many more PAs. I'm not saying that Bernie didn't perform as well as we might think--he performed phenominally--it's just really tough to compare his numbers to those of someone who played in an earlier era.
How do you think Jeter compares to the other all-time great Yankees?
May 8th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Jeter's the best Yankees SS and should go down as one of their 10 best players ever.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
It's hard to completely compare Jeter to other great Yankees. He's probably overtaken Rizzuto as the greatest shortstop the team has had. But he was never considered a power threat and i don't think he was ever feared on the basepaths as a threat to steal at will, yet he's racked up 210 HR and 281 SB. Because he was never truly dominant, something Mantle, Gehrig, Berra, Ruth, and DiMaggio all were, I find it hard to put Jeter ahead of any of those 5. Also Mariano Rivera and Whitey Ford were much more dominating than Jeter ever was. So that's the Top 7. He's definitely in that next group of Williams, Mattingly, Dickey, Lazzeri, Rizzuto, and Munson, along with a few other pitchers.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
I have to disagree with you, JohnnyTwisto. Offensively, Derek Jeter is a very good player – a perennial All Star candidate, but not a perennial MVP candidate. (At least, he shouldn’t be – and wouldn’t be if he played in Minnesota instead of New York.) Among his contemporaries I would say he’s in the top 20% in offensive value, marginally in the top 10% when considering shortstops only. In today’s game, shortstops are often offensive contributors, unlike in years past. (Cal Ripken, Jimmy Rollins, Hanley Ramirez, Miguel Tejada, etc.)
Defensively, however, I’d say the guy is way over-rated. He has marginally average range at best, and he makes his share of errors. He should never finish in the top 10 in Gold Glove voting, let alone actually win some. The Yankees would have been much better off when they acquired Alex Rodriguez if they had moved Jeter to third and kept A-Rod at short instead. The Yankees apparently succumbed to the idea that A-Rod’s stats “looked more like a third baseman’s stats” than A-Rods.
Where Jeter does earn bonus points is in leadership. As best I can tell, Derek is a stand-up guy and a genuine team leader. I have not heard or read any serious disparaging things about his character; and when you play in New York for that many years, that’s saying something.
Overall, I would say Jeter is an asset to any team he’s on, but considering the glorious history of the Yankees franchise and the many Hall of Famers that played for them, I would be hard-pressed to find room for him in my top 20 All-Time Yankees, let alone my top 10.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Rather than make a list of who ranks where, why not make up a 25-man roster of the greatest Yankee players? Jeter and Rizzuto are the shortstops. In fact, 21 of the 25 are (or will be) in the Hall: Gehrig, Lazzeri, Gordon, Jeter, Rizzuto, A-Rod, Berra, Dickey, Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio, Combs, Winfield; plus the 8 pitchers Ford, Gomez, Ruffing, Hoyt, Pennock, Chesbro, Rivera, Gossage. Who's the third catcher, Posada or Howard or Munson? Which two more pitchers among Guidry, Reynolds, Righetti, Lyle, etc.? Who gets the 25th roster spot? (My rule: you have to have played more of your career as a Yankee than you did with any other team to be eligible. No Reggie, no Roger.)
How more hits does Jeter need to become the all-time leader WHILE PLAYING shortstop? (I assume people know that Ripken had 345 home runs as a shortstop and A-Rod is stuck on 344.)
I looked up Bernie Williams's postseason stats and am confused by the two lines for ALDS? Why two? (
May 8th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
No, Jeter's a not a perennial MVP candidate, but how many players are? He had a very good case to win two MVPs (1999 and 2006) and also received 1st place votes in a third year ('98).
Defensively, he's not good, and he has had some seasons when he appeared really bad ('07). Nevertheless, he's been competent enough to remain at the position into his mid-30s. That may be damning with faint praise. I'll concede he's likely among the worst defenders to play as many games at SS as he has. But those who are even worse don't last at the position that long.
When I am considering the best Yankees, I am considering performance as a Yankee. Jeter might not be as good a player as Johnny Mize, but Mize was a reserve for NY, so he doesn't get considered for their all-time team. Jeter has 14 seasons with an impressive peak. If you really don't think he's among the top 20, you must be giving a lot of credit to guys who only played here a few seasons.
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David, that's odd about Bernie's ALDS lines. He played in 12 ALDS's, and the two lines show 7 and 5, so I assume if you add them together you get his total totals. Obviously they should already be combined, however.
May 9th, 2009 at 6:30 am
As a die heard Red Sox fan, the last person I want to see at the plate with the game tied in the 9th is Jeter. His inside-out swing has given the Sox fits for 10+ years. He is a true team leader (the anti-ARod) who always has his head in the game. In my opinion, he is first ballot HOFer and although he is despised in Beantown, he will always be respected.